How to DIE PROPERLY???

[gx35]

Who has successfully died before? How can I advise my actors to die properly? I need some tips -- I find it difficult to make someone die convincingly!

So let me break up my question:

• Ok. So someone's gonna shoot you with an SMG. You got about 8 squibs (compressed air) attached onto your body. How would you act to make all that blood spray convincing, real and/or painful looking, like exaggerating the body jerking/twitching, facial expressions?

• Get shot, 'fly' backwards to ground, die quickly, or slowly collapsing onto knees, says the last words blablabla while cotching blood, falls down?

• Real time or slow motion?

• Camera angles? Front, side, or a mix of both? Close ups on the bleeding area (crop out head and legs) or whole body?

• Anything I need to look out for the costumes?

• I'm planning to film a day-scene outdoors in snow, and I got three identical snowboarding jackets that I'll be using. They're white so it'll match with the snow, and a sharp contrast with blood. And I'll probably do the squib setup in the jackets instead of on the actor for the sake of easiness. Suggestions?

• Should I trigger the squibs in one go (and use multiple cameras) or trigger 2-3 squibs per cut and change the camera angles in each cut and also do touch-ups on the blood stains & the "bullet hole entries" on the costume?

I know we can practice with water squibs (triggered by compressed air), but on the shooting day, nothing must go wrong. I can only modify 2 of the 3 jackets because the last one is required in other scenes (we're filming in random order). They could get cleaned again and everything reset but it'll take time!


Well I guess these tips could be applied to getting shot by arrows or what not, as long as it's a lethal projectile

 

[Mattykins]

Well, I have cheated death a few times. If I was successful I don't think I'd be posting.

But when someone gets shot it isn't epic. They basically just drop. Almost ragdoll. Depending on where they got hit. There is no jerking of the body aside from a reaction to getting shot. You just drop.

If that helps you any.

 

[gx35]

But when someone gets shot it isn't epic. They basically just drop. Almost ragdoll. Depending on where they got hit. There is no jerking of the body aside from a reaction to getting shot. You just drop.

thanks for that info. However, I'd like to make it as epic as possible -- but not going over the top as it'll look fake.

I'd love to hear more suggestions from more people

 

[Jim Montgomery]

• Ok. So someone's gonna shoot you with an SMG. You got about 8 squibs (compressed air) attached onto your body. How would you act to make all that blood spray convincing, real and/or painful looking, like exaggerating the body jerking/twitching, facial expressions?

To be convincing try filming yourself as someone punchs you in the chest HARD. Study the resulting clip, show it to your actors etc.

• Get shot, 'fly' backwards to ground, die quickly, or slowly collapsing onto knees, says the last words blablabla while cotching blood, falls down?

Depends on the story but know this a lot of blood from the chest is fatal now. Maybe a step backwards, legs collapse first and the body follows in a heap.

• Real time or slow motion?

Do it in real time or the effect will be truly visible. Let the audience fill in the action.

• Camera angles? Front, side, or a mix of both? Close ups on the bleeding area (crop out head and legs) or whole body?

Again your call but remember it happens fast, medium close would probably be best for the actual shooting. Cut to the actor laying on the floor. You will have to be careful with the clothing to preserve the illusion that the blood stained jacket was a result of what they saw when the actor got shot.

• Anything I need to look out for the costumes?

Stage blood or anything with red dye will probably stain so plan on tossing the clothing.

• I'm planning to film a day-scene outdoors in snow, and I got three identical snowboarding jackets that I'll be using. They're white so it'll match with the snow, and a sharp contrast with blood. And I'll probably do the squib setup in the jackets instead of on the actor for the sake of easiness. Suggestions?

Doing it on the actor will not work. Trust me on this. There is to much material between the camera and actor for any of the blood to show. If at all possible I would rig the tubing inside the jacket just under the outer shell. Sew it in place and use gaff tape. Burn a hole in the jacket with a cigarette to simulate the bullet hole. Entry wounds do not create a lot of blood so be prudent.

• Should I trigger the squibs in one go (and use multiple cameras) or trigger 2-3 squibs per cut and change the camera angles in each cut and also do touch-ups on the blood stains & the "bullet hole entries" on the costume?

2 or 3 hits would be realistic. Any more than that and you would be hard pressed to convince the audience that a machine gun can fire that accurately.

I know we can practice with water squibs (triggered by compressed air), but on the shooting day, nothing must go wrong. I can only modify 2 of the 3 jackets because the last one is required in other scenes (we're filming in random order). They could get cleaned again and everything reset but it'll take time!

Practicing with water is a good thing. And plan on using more than 2 jackets.

 

[Capt Quirk]

Try doing it in two takes. The first take, use a paintball gun so that the actor can experience the pain of getting mowed with multiple rounds. Show him the playback, so that he can see how his body flinched and jerked with each hit. Then load him up with the squibs and try it again.

 

[Jim Montgomery]

Capt.

That hurts! Thats right it is only an actor, there are plenty of them at the convenience stores. rogar-Evil(DBG):

 

[Mattykins]

I did a drill like that with our paintball team when we used to play professionally. We went through "the gauntlet"

Each player would run the course with the other 6 team members shooting at them as they ran it. Since each of us could pull 16 - 18 shots a second, multiply that times six, then by 200 - the capacity of our hoppers. That is a lot of paint in the air.

We did it so our players wouldn't react when they got hit. (So we could cheat easier)

But be careful if you do the paintball route. Never would recommend that. But if you do. HAVE THEM WEAR PAINTBALL GOOGLES. And the guns need to be chronographed so they are shooting around 270 Feet per second. No more than 290 Feet Per Second.

Running into a 300 plus range will make them bleed and will hurt a lot. And is really dangerous to boot.

 

[gx35]

Thanks Jim for the detailed info :beer: and your wit too

Maybe a step backwards, legs collapse first and the body follows in a heap.

Good idea, thanks, I just don't know how to pull that together before you tipped me. I think I'll make my talent twitch a little when reacting to the squibs.

Do it in real time or the effect will be truly visible. Let the audience fill in the action.

ok, but what do you mean by the effect will be visible? if the squib is well executed it shouldn't be a problem... I meant slow motion just slightly slowed down about 75% - 50%, not extremely slow

You will have to be careful with the clothing to preserve the illusion that the blood stained jacket was a result of what they saw when the actor got shot.

Stage blood or anything with red dye will probably stain so plan on tossing the clothing.

If at all possible I would rig the tubing inside the jacket just under the outer shell. Sew it in place and use gaff tape. Burn a hole in the jacket with a cigarette to simulate the bullet hole. Entry wounds do not create a lot of blood so be prudent.

Thanks for these tips especially! I'm gonna use thick chocolate-based blood to not let it soak into the jacket. It'll be easier to reapply. I'll get a darker but thinner solution in a spray bottle for touch-ups too.

Yea, I was gonna modify them by cutting holes directly on the inside of jackets but your method sounds neater. And the cigeratte method to make the holes, that's a really clever idea. Thanks. I was looking for a way to make it look ripped naturally without the clear X cut holes.

I read that chocolate blood does not stain that easily, and I could reuse them in other flicks. Even if it does stain I'm gonna keep the jackets as they are after production... saving it for the next Halloween maybe? Or if I patch up the holes temporarily from the inside and clean them I can wear them besides getting shot, too.

Practicing with water is a good thing. And plan on using more than 2 jackets.

I got the 3 same jackets for a good price, so I don't think I'll be able to find them again. I guess if the 2 takes doesn't work out nicely it would have to be refilmed the next day then. But ya -- we'll be practising!

Try doing it in two takes. The first take, use a paintball gun so that the actor can experience the pain of getting mowed with multiple rounds.

woo, let's not increase the pay nor the medical insurance here lol

 

[Capt Quirk]

Aren't actors supposed to suffer in order to get it right?

 

[gx35]

Aren't actors supposed to suffer in order to get it right?

this is supposed to be like a short film, and it'll be kinda difficult to get people to volunteer :crybaby: if I were to inflict pain on them lol

 

[Back to One]

Sometimes shooting it in slo-mo you really notice a late take. Because the actor isnt firing the squib he needs to go of off effects. What works well for me is just waiting for squib to hit, its hard to sell the bullet going thru you. the actor should feel the squib and then he will have something to react to. less is more. My buddy did the scene in matrix when the helicopter is shooting into the window.(he was a Smith) he had 30+ squibs on him. if its shot in slo mo its almost better not to do anything at all. let the effect sell it for you. good luck

 

[gx35]

Sometimes shooting it in slo-mo you really notice a late take. Because the actor isnt firing the squib he needs to go of off effects. What works well for me is just waiting for squib to hit, its hard to sell the bullet going thru you. the actor should feel the squib and then he will have something to react to. less is more. My buddy did the scene in matrix when the helicopter is shooting into the window.(he was a Smith) he had 30+ squibs on him. if its shot in slo mo its almost better not to do anything at all. let the effect sell it for you. good luck

So you're saying slow motion is better? This was my original idea, although not bullet-time slowness, but just everything slowed down a little to about 0.5 to 1 shot per second in the final product (imagine this), and everything else is isolated. There should only be this guy dying in the white, empty snow and gunshots firing and bullet hitting flesh. That scene there's no background music whatsoever. (slow motion also earns me a few more seconds that I can put to good use e.g. showing the pain expressed on the actor's face.

Someone elsewhere told me that this guy should fall down on to his knees, grab his chest and scream like a beast... gets up, keep on screaming (oh, how epic) and then finally collapses. The screaming I can thread it together with the above-mentioned effects, echoing, and really removing all other distracting variables...

Jet Li recently said, quote, "Then you can think about it -- even killing people is very beautiful. ... nobody think about it -- the people who die, they're suffering".

 

[clang]

Someone elsewhere told me that this guy should fall down on to his knees, grab his chest and scream like a beast... gets up, keep on screaming (oh, how epic) and then finally collapses.

No, die fast. Unless you're trying for comedy, there's nothing more cringeworthy than a long drawn out dying scene from someone full of bullets (or arrows - remember Boromir's ludicrous death in the first Lord of the Rings movie?)

We've all seen so many melodramatic dying scenes that if you want realistic dramatic tension you're much better off going the other way - victim gets hit, no physical reaction beyond looking down in puzzled disbelief then collapsing.

By all means then try it in slow motion in post-production - costs you nothing and it'll either look better or worse.

 

[Capt Quirk]

In times of extreme damage, it isn't unusual for one to go into immediate shock. The strength just leaves your legs and you drop to your knees, as you try to figure out why you body isn't working right anymore, before keeling over. A few shudders or convulsions would be the finale.

 

[Back to One]

Kinda....I meant slow motion is a harder sell. another words in slow motion you will see a squib blow then a reaction. the time between the squib and the reaction is drawn out in slo mo. In reality you body would probably be rocked back and blood visible simultaneously if not after. not one then the other especially not the blood first then the body movement. so if you do slow motion I think it will look fine if there is little or no reaction on the initial hit. like the Capt said you'll probably look to see what the heck just happened then realize you have no strength and then go to your knees. at the end of the day We can dissect the physics of a bullet going thru a body, did it hit bone that would move the person or did it go thru without hitting anything but flesh, not rocking the body too much, bla bla bla. is there really a right way to die?? Sorry if I was unclear on the initial response. good luck, and have fun. and when your done, make sure you post the footage so we can tell you how it could have been done differently. JK Good Luck

 

[gx35]

Thanks for all the contribution so far. Our project is still in the "brainstorming" stage so it'll still be a while before we hit the filming. We're still looking at all the different squibs available, but we're probably going for pneumatic squibs instead of explosives even though it's simpler, it's cheaper to use compressed air.

For the pneumatic squibs, I did a bit of research but it seems like it's complicated to build.

I'm in the process of simplifying these two designs:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Pneumatic-Squib-Tutorial/ (Crosius)
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-make-a-Blood-Shooter/ (IndyMogul)

One from Crosius and another one from IndyMogul. The one from Crosius is better but the parts are harder to source (and more expensive, too). IndyMogul's approach with a coke bottle is easier but it can't be triggered by the actor.

My goal is to let the actor to trigger the squib, and to build it from coke bottles instead of smaller canisters with different heads and connectors... IndyMogul's design is much simpler and it can be pumped with a regular bicycle pump. In the final product it should have a flip switch that the actor can toggle, probably hidden somewhere in the sleeves. I will probably hook up 2 tubes to each coke bottle so 2 squibs can be set off simultaneously (entry/exit wounds).

Basically I'm replacing the air canister of Crosius' design with the 2 litre coke bottle. It therefore can't be hidden in the costume of course, but rather, have the coke bottles placed on the ground.

Anyone knows what I'm talking about and any suggestions to this system (or you know a better way)?

I have devised a spray head where the fake blood will eject out of the hole. I'll put up the design later... It sprays blood outwards instead straight out like a stream, and it's leak proof, and it'll get the blood out instead of draining half its content inside the costume and eventually permeating through.

No, die fast.
...redacted...
By all means then try it in slow motion in post-production - costs you nothing and it'll either look better or worse.

In times of extreme damage, it isn't unusual for one to go into immediate shock. The strength just leaves your legs and you drop to your knees, as you try to figure out why you body isn't working right anymore, before keeling over. A few shudders or convulsions would be the finale.

the time between the squib and the reaction is drawn out in slo mo.
...redacted...
so if you do slow motion I think it will look fine if there is little or no reaction on the initial hit.

This is what I'm probably gonna do: The squibs will be triggered about 2-3 squibs per cut. It'll be in slowed to about 0.5-1 squib per second, from various angles e.g. close ups, middle angles, side angles etc. Setting up to a maximum of 3 squibs per cut will be easier (since we don't have that many cameras to film at so many angles simultaneously), and we can build less pneumatic squibs (just need to set them up at different locations for each cut -- having tubes going all over the actor may be tedious). During each take I can reapply the blood on the jacket with thicker/quick-drying blood so the blood stains will stay the same throughout the scene.

The actor won't be jerking around like mad, but just shudder a little, and since it's slow motion you won't notice how much the actor is shuddering. The arms would probably be waving around.

After all that squibbing I'll hook up a few tubes to the holes and it can ooze out some blood. Yeah that looks sick