How to avoid lens flare oil lanterns/candle light on late 1800's period film shoot

Loganm187

Loganm187

Well-known member
I recently scored a DP gig shooting a short film that will be all lit with oil lanterns and candles during the late 1800's. We did a lighting test today with a few lamps to see if we would be able to pull this off at lower ISO and of course the dreaded green ghost appeared in almost all my shots driving me crazy! During the actual production this whole area will have candles and lanterns all over the set...How am I to avoid this? I'm really stressing. Also, I think this is strange... I found Barry's thread about the issue and see how someone was saying with the exact same shot with 2 different camera and he was only getting flare on his AF100, then he was called a troll and the thread was locked. The AF100 does seem to have a problem with this more than other cameras and it's like the big members and supporters are trying to hide this from us or something. But, I'm just really curious on how i should go about shooting this scene. Thanks!
 
Expose the "practicals" correctly (using the wfm and a spot meter) and you should not have an issue. (Dont over expose the practicals)

ie. expose them at a level where they do not freak out the camera. ( A few more tests will let you know the level)

You may need some supplementary (real) fill lighting to control your shadows and gammas.

Maybe get the art department to put gels in the lamps / lanterns and maybe trim the wicks to control the outputs.
 
We are shooting in an old cabin and we did shine some dim light through the windows and it did "warm" the place up a bit along with the candles/lamps. Would light gels be okay in the oil lamps at such a high temp? It would help diffuse the light inside for sure and would be a great idea to avoid flare.
 
You could try but I doubt they would hold up to the heat in such a confined area. Can they find frosted glass lanterns? Rosco makes some colored dyes that can be used to color the glass but I don't know if that will hold up to the heat. It's called colorine and only recommended for up to 40w bulbs (which do get pretty hot to the touch).
 
You could put wire or wire gauze in the lamps.

I personally would not be using the practicals as sole source of light. Too problematical.

I would treat them as art "practicals". Mood setters and motivating light sources for cine lights. (contolleable on dimmers)

Its a matter of balance and primarily you need to get the exposure of the "practicals" sorted eg 85-100% on the WFM fFIRST...and then balance up the rest of the lighting to suit the mood and feel of the scene. YOu may even need to "flicker" your real cine lights to fit the feel of the lamps.
 
Watch "Barry Lyndon" at least twenty times .. and when I way "watch" I mean
dissect. It's one of the more detailed ASC documented productions in film. A
true masterpiece that's directly applicable to what you're doing. If you're not
an ASC "friend of ASC" member .. (IMHO) it's quite worth the price of joining.
See www.theasc.com

There's some beautiful stuff from Russell Carpenter is awesome.



jeff
 
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Really great info, Shooter. What would be the best way to "filcker" are cine lights? We have dimmers on all the lights already.
 
The October 2007 issue of American Cinematographer has an article featuring the legendary Roger Deakins and his work on both "Assassination of Jesse James" and "No Country For Old Men". He talks about how he lit the opening train robbery with oil lamps and dummy bulbs on dimmers. There's a lot to be learned from that article. He shot on Kodak Vision 500T, and the oil flames were not enough to light the scene on their own. What ISO will you be shooting at? I agree with other posters that you may need to augment these oil lamps with some other form of fill light. Warmed up Chinese Lanterns? For close-ups, Deakins augmented lantern light with a warmed-up Tweenie bounced into a gold stipple reflector.
I lit a western feature that was shot on a Varicam a few years back. We had oil lanterns but even with the lens wide open, they didn't output nearly enough light. I had to use Chinese lanterns, Kino-Flos with CTO and various other gelled tungsten fresnels to really light the scene. The end result looked pretty naturalistic.
 
I have watched Barry Lyndon to death amazed at how the lighting was achieved and even told the director we were going "Barry Lyndon" earlier today. She wasn't familiar :( dvdbrother I think we are going to go with the chinese lanterns etc. to actually light the scene. I'm kind of excited having never worked on such unique lighting situation! I would prefer to shoot under 800 ISO, but it depends what lens I'm using of course. I have a few in mind from 1.4 to 2.8.
 
OK .. understand .. see if your lighting folks can give you large diffused lighting source (muslin or
214 panel) then you can put the practicals where you want. If you've got a large set, you're probably
gonna need at least a 10k with a large panel to diffuse it down. With big ambiance, you may need
some dark flags to knock down what you don't want.

Just remember the candles, etc. are not your principle lighting source .. even though you want them
to appear as though they are.

These period pieces are always ambitious projects ... best wishes!

jeff
 
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Well, one thing is for sure. With all those lamps and candles, you'll have a bit of smoke in the air to create some nice atmosphere! No need for a hazer!
But jmarkham is right about the muslin. Another idea might be to use unbleached muslin as a bounce source instead of diffusing through it. If your practicals are not up high, if the lamps and candles are sitting on tables, etc. then bouncing light off muslin hung from an unseen set wall could help create a soft but directional light that would look like ambient lamplight.
 
Loganm187 said:
What would be the best way to "filcker" are cine lights? We have dimmers on all the lights already.
Click to expand...

If you have a dimmer board you could put the lights you want to create the flicker effect with on a 2 channel random slow chase. I used to work in an effects shop, and we used to send out a flicker unit with our gas fireplaces. It was basically a box with 4 r lamps, with each lamp on a random timer with seperate speed controls, and a gel frame to get what ever color you wanted of it - amber for a fireplace, blue for a tv set, etc.
 
Another thing to keep in mind.

The lamps and candles will probably force you into an up lighting situation on faces. That needs to be done carefully or it can get pretty ugly.

If you dont folow that light direction motivation..your scene may not look convincing. Prepare for it.
 
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