How many times are you all going to recycle your SD Cards?

Shooter

Shooter

Veteran
How many times are you all going to recycle your SD Cards?

ie. shoot>format>unload> shoot>format>unload... etc....

When do you expect them to fail?

I am just starting to think that maybe new card(s) for every shoot is the way to go.

The shoot card becomes part of the archive workflow (the master rushes ) and the risk of failure is lowered to some degree.

Just wondering...thoughts?
 
I don't know, good question, but of you shoot then format before unloading, you won't see that many images on your card. ;)
 
Good question - As long as I can re-charge for the card then I use a new one every time. On longer shoots I do the backups and give the client a hard drive with all the rushes - so far I've had 2 main cards that seem to be fine. Though am I right in saying that a card's chances of failure aren't necessarily related to the amount of times it's used, ie a bad card could fail on the 1st use or the 1000th, there's no telling when? Not sure about this though.
 
I've been using my SDHC cards on an almost daily basis for 6 months and haven't had a single failure. I copy the footage onto two seperate hard drives before the card gets formatted. I miss the instant back-up that HDV provided but I've already saved plenty of money on tapes, and my current workflow is working fine. Keep in mind that unlike tape, SDHD cards are made to be rewritten again and again.

I don't know about prices in the USA but here in Australia the cost of SDHC cards is around about $60 for a 16gb class 10 card from a brand like Transcend or Kingston, and a lot more for SanDisk. I can easily shoot 100GB+ at a wedding so that would put my media costs at nearly $400 per wedding - so It definitely doesn't make sense to use cards one-time-only yet.

I figure a 16GB card gives me on average what a 60 minute DV tape does (a little more if I shoot AVCHD, a little less if I shoot DSLR, so it averages out!), so when the price of a 16GB card is roughly in the ballpark of what miniDV tapes were, then I'll think about not recycling them.
 
I think it's more likely you will have a failure going through hundreds/thousands of SD cards. I'd prefer to find some that work and stick with them for a bit. I'd never take any untested gear into the field, especially memory cards.
 
You know I was thinking about the same thing. Coming from the world of film and Digi-beta. I really don't consider the cards to be that expensive. You could just keep them for every job.
 
Will Turner said:
I think it's more likely you will have a failure going through hundreds/thousands of SD cards. I'd prefer to find some that work and stick with them for a bit. I'd never take any untested gear into the field, especially memory cards.
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Excellent point.

It's a numbers and percentages thing, and sooner or later you'll come across a card which fails early.

Paul Hudson said:
You know I was thinking about the same thing. Coming from the world of film and Digi-beta. I really don't consider the cards to be that expensive. You could just keep them for every job.
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Well, prices may be comparable to Digi-beta, but I know plenty of places (news stations, mostly) that have the same 7 tapes on rotation for months at a time. The tapes are labelled with the day of the week and every 7 days each tape get's re-recorded. And I'm sure SDHC cards are rated for far more cycles than digi-beta tapes!

As for film, well yes, it is certainly cheaper. But heck, even P2 is cheaper than film!
 
Not to jinx my self, but I'm still using the 1st generation Panasonic 16g class 6 I've had since the HMC came out without a single failure. I'm just now moving to the new SDHC and SDXC UHS-I cards now, at the end of the year... so my turnover has been nil.
 
It's a really interesting question - for commercial work with a budget I can see the sense in keeping the card but like John says it makes no sense for weddings. I've had read failures on cards but I can recover the data - I just use the best cards I can buy and lock them as soon as I take them out of the camera, always power off the card reader before I insert or remove the card and hope for the best - I'd love to go back to the luxury of reading the tape then using it as the archive medium.

Are there any test to show the average life of these cards? maybe we should be replacing them after a number of formats (sell the old ones on eBay?)
 
deltoidjohn said:
Excellent point.

It's a numbers and percentages thing, and sooner or later you'll come across a card which fails early.



Well, prices may be comparable to Digi-beta, but I know plenty of places (news stations, mostly) that have the same 7 tapes on rotation for months at a time. The tapes are labelled with the day of the week and every 7 days each tape get's re-recorded. And I'm sure SDHC cards are rated for far more cycles than digi-beta tapes!

As for film, well yes, it is certainly cheaper. But heck, even P2 is cheaper than film!
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News maybe. Professional never...At least for me.
 
I've never had an SD card fail yet (or CF) so I guess that will really be when I'll think about it. For me, most of my older cards are just smaller sizes so over time I just don't use them as the technology gets faster and faster. Right now I prefer to shoot on 16G cards so that not all my footage is on one JUST in case something happens.
 
Back in July on the SD Card Advice sticky, I had this interchange with someone much more knowledgeable on the subject than I:

groveChuck said:
Is there any probability formula for the more you use an SDHC card, the more likely an error/failure is,
vs
If you don't have an error/failure in the first X (10-20) uses, chances are greatly diminished you will have a problem later?

Any thoughts?
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maxusa said:
I have seen many statistical studies of electronics parts and machinery that show much higher probability of failure (100~1000x) at the initial minutes/hours/days and then again approaching the end of useful life.
Note that the end of life may be well beyond a warranty period.

Basically, if a given device did not fail shortly after it is placed in service, then the chances are very high that it won't fail for a long while.
Quality pros sometimes call this infant mortality. I imagine that NAND flash follows the same pattern.
You may be able to find details in MTTF and similar studies or documentation.
Many (smaller) vendors do not have their own labs and outsource MTTF/MTBF work.
Click to expand...

groveChuck said:
That's what I thought was the case. I'll see if I can find some actual studies.
Does SDHC have a typical life span, like P2 does? Thanks!
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maxusa said:
Measurable main theoretical limit is the number of NAND block cell write cycles.
It changes among flash manufacturers, technology, organization, controller algorythms, etc.

Then we have factors that are difficult to predict such as storage and operating environment, human factor (handling), reenergizing frequency, etc.
All things being equal, the P2 packaging is more durable (can withstand more insertions and rougher handling).
A P2 card is a professionally packaged flash, whereas SD cards have light/consumer grade packaging where miniature size and affordability trumps many other requirements.
Some SD card makers have ruggedized offerings such as sealed epoxy and/or reinforced casings.
So a given SD card life span depends on usage and many other factors.

By the end of last decade, MLC NAND flash would typically sustain 5-10K write cycles. The latest MLC flash from Intel/Micron can hold up to 30K cycles. Over time, and with technological advances, flash becomes better, smaller, and cheaper.
An old SD card, therefore, is unlikely to be able to sustain as many write cycles as a modern equivalent.
Having said that, SD cards do require TLC (Pelican, anyone?), but the risks can be somewhat offset by following best practices and using professional name brands that typically carry lifetime warranty.
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But my workflow (if I'm not editing) is sometimes I hand over a hard drive, and sometimes I copy files to a (new) SD card, keeping my used, trusted Panasonic Gold with the files on it until the client safely offloads the files to their system.

And I keep my cards in a Pelican card case.

But even if card prices drop, I think (for the most part) I'll stick with reusing cards that have proven to be reliable.
 
I use a pelican case as well and ALWAYS put them in there, never in a pocket or anywhere else. I baby my SD cards so they don't get something heavy placed on them, or bend, etc.
 
Once a card has been used a couple of times and proven to work, I am much more worried that it will fail mechanically (case cracking, write protect tab breaking or jamming in the slot, etc.) than that it will have an electronic problem. I'm pretty sure I will wear out the cases before any memory cells fail; I just hope it doesn't happen in a way that jams the card in the camera and renders the whole system unusable.

The Pelican case seems like good insurance, and I always carry two of them on a shoot -- one for fresh cards, one for used ones.

- Greg
 
Just a little question which may be going off on a tangent for which I apologize. In the guerilla film makers hand book they mention film festival formats they prefer, and one of the big ones is HDCAM. Does anyone know how you could get your final movie shot with the af100 into whatever format that is for film festivals? (I dont even know if HDCAM is some type of tape or what :S) Sorry for the ignorance, I could find details about converting hd digital to 16mm film but thats super expensive for my budget.
 
HDCAM is a tape format. But don't rely on something you read which may be dated. Always, always, contact the festival for submission format requirements.

Back on track... Pelican storage case full of cards I have tested. After the shoot I backup the cards, and reformat in-camera.

Bottom line... If a card is going to fail its going to fail. It doesn't matter if it's a week old, two years old, or brand new. Wouldn't it be nice if Panasonic would enable the AF100 to shoot simultaneously to both cards!
 
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