How many people use 25p PAL?

Londude

Londude

Carbonite Member
Just curious as to how many people on this site own a PAL DVX100 as it seems most dudes and dudettes (havnt met any women off here yet) use NTSC DVX's....mostly because this is a US website I guess.

I find the difference between 24p and 25p very noticeable.

24p looks alot better, no doubt, more film like than 25p, but 25p looks great also but I would prefer to shoot in 24p.
 
I use 25p down here in africa...i didn't know there was a noticable difference in picture quality between 25p and 24p..i'v never heard of it here before!!
 
I use 25p. Dep down I feel like I am missing something 'cause most of the talk on the internet about the DVX is praising 24p because it has that like film, it is 24 full frames a second thing (and the same way: 25 full frames a second is not). But to keep me from getting frustrated about that, I was quick to accept that a lot of people say (write) that is quite similar.

But I bought my secondhand DVX to learn camera basics and so forth. Without prior knowledge, based on advise from some pro's whom I told what was for sale and within my price range. They all said 'buy the dvx!'. So I did and then I started reading about it.

And in hindside I'm so glad I did follow that advise. Like I wrote earlier somewhere else on the forum, I consider Barry Greens book as part of the camera. Same goes for dvxusers.com.

Okay, but that was not the question, was it? Sorry. Back on topic. :)
 
Anomie said:
I use 25p. Dep down I feel like I am missing something 'cause most of the talk on the internet about the DVX is praising 24p because it has that like film, it is 24 full frames a second thing (and the same way: 25 full frames a second is not).
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The difference is practically imperceptible. I challenge anyone who says that they can see a difference. I think people might be getting confused, because of one of my biggest screaming pet peeves of all time, the continued propensity for folks to refer to interlaced PAL video as 25 "frames" per second. It is not frames, it is 50 fields, it is not not not 25 "frames".

So if people are saying they can see a big difference between 24p and PAL video, I agree -- there's a huge difference.

But if they're saying they can see a difference between progressive video shot at 24fps, and progressive video shot at 25fps... I doubt it. There's only a 4% difference! They look the same, so don't worry about it.

Between 30p and 24p? Yes, that's 25% more frames per second, that's a noticeable difference. But 4% more? There really isn't anything noticeably different about it. 25p is the proper frame rate for film-looking video in a PAL territory.
 
Barry_Green said:
I think people might be getting confused, because of one of my biggest screaming pet peeves of all time, the continued propensity for folks to refer to interlaced PAL video as 25 "frames" per second. It is not frames, it is 50 fields, it is not not not 25 "frames".
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Do people still refer to 60Hz interlaced TV as 30fps, interlaced? ;) Because they did just 5-10 years ago (I can judge from the documents that I google on the subject) and they often did not even care to add "interlaced".

AFAIK, EBU and BBC prefer using frame-based notation, like 25i instead of 50i. Charles Poynton uses frame-based notation as well.
 

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So what does 30p look like then? THere was a video on vimeo which isnt up there anymore, or at least i couldnt find it, spent a long time doing so, that was shot in 24p and looked brilliant. I thought yeh man, this DVX100b is what I want to get. (Before I bought one.)

But upon getting one and playing back the 25p pal mode i shot in, it just doesnt look the same. 25p looks fine, I'm happy with it, but the 24p i saw on this dudes video just looked even better, proper film look like.

I would watch his video over and over before I got a DVX100b thinking wow this camera is awesome I'm so getting one.
 
Londude said:
So what does 30p look like then?
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Like 24p, but you can afford faster pan speeds without strobing.

But upon getting one and playing back the 25p pal mode i shot in, it just doesnt look the same. 25p looks fine, I'm happy with it, but the 24p i saw on this dudes video just looked even better, proper film look like.
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In reality, 24p and 25p are the same. Transfers between 25p PAL video and 24fps film are done 1:1 and then run using the target system's native frame rate. I do not know anyone who can reliably tell the difference (I know two guys, who can sometimes hear the difference if audio is not adjusted). Frame rate is only one of many things that make the footage look good or bad. I have also seen quite a lot of crappy 24p footage.

I would watch his video over and over before I got a DVX100b thinking wow this camera is awesome I'm so getting one.
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The camera IS awesome if used properly.
 
Warthog said:
Like 24p, but you can afford faster pan speeds without strobing.



In reality, 24p and 25p are the same. Transfers between 25p PAL video and 24fps film are done 1:1 and then run using the target system's native frame rate. I do not know anyone who can reliably tell the difference (I know two guys, who can sometimes hear the difference if audio is not adjusted). Frame rate is only one of many things that make the footage look good or bad. I have also seen quite a lot of crappy 24p footage.


The camera IS awesome if used properly.
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Strobing........thats when the screen flickers in some parts right?
 
Londude said:
So what does 30p look like then? THere was a video on vimeo which isnt up there anymore, or at least i couldnt find it, spent a long time doing so, that was shot in 24p and looked brilliant. I thought yeh man, this DVX100b is what I want to get. (Before I bought one.)

But upon getting one and playing back the 25p pal mode i shot in, it just doesnt look the same. 25p looks fine, I'm happy with it, but the 24p i saw on this dudes video just looked even better, proper film look like.
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Vimeo used to not support 25p and 30p. They were re-encoding everything to 24p, which produced ugly irregular stutter. They fixed the issue about a year or so ago.
 
Londude said:
Strobing........thats when the screen flickers in some parts right?
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Here it refers to situation, when horizontal pan is not smooth and the image "jumps". This is rather natural, because the faster the motion, the higher frame rate you need for it to appear smooth.

The exact "safe" pan speeds can be calculated and depend on the lens focal lenth, DOF etc. But generally object that take longer than let's say 8 seconds to cross the frame are safe for 24p. If they (or the camera) move faster, some strobing is likely to occur. Of course if the background is blurry and the camera follows an object in foreground, the strobing will not be noticed by so many viewers compared to situation when you are for example trying to film a landscape panorama shot with DOF from a few feet to infinity.
 
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