How many of you are just using internal codec?

Sparky874

Sparky874

Well-known member
Hello again. I had a four day shoot at the ATP finals in London and I used my F3 with a Samurai recording at ProRes422. I have just starting the editing today, and as the clips files are that much larger than the MXF files from my PDW-700 (50 mbps) - I have to render the ProRes clips out to MXF files (bringing them down to 50mbps) for smoother editing purposes. This probably doesn't make much sense to many here (I edit with Sony Vegas which loves MXF files - I can bring in 14 hours worth into an edit and it doesn't slow down - I brought loads to ProRes422 clips into the edit and after a certain number it froze).

ANYWAY, back to my point, do you think the extra file size and time this then implies in the edit process, is really worth it, if you are not grading, are the pictures that much better? Sometimes I wonder why I don't just use my 700 - it is so straight forward!! BUT, I do love the look of the F3 images...

Thanks, Sparky!
 
Yeah, I saw your shots before and was really impressed by them, some lovely work there, really getting a great deal from the camera. Well done. Since my post to open this thread, I just rendered some clips I downconverted from ProRes422 to MXF 50mbps, to a windows media file, and have to say they look stunning. For me it's nice to have the footage recorded at least 50mbps as I provide some footage from time to time to broadcasters. I just need to create a good workflow, but after seeing the footage (even as a hires WMV file just now), the extra time it takes is worth it. The sharpness you get across the whole image is remarkable. No softening at edges at all. I find the most important thing with the camera to obtaining the best image, is actually nailing the exposure, which I am just getting the hang on now, as it is so easy to over expose by a step or so. Setting the correct exposure would be so difficult if I wasn't constantly using my TVlogic monitor.
Thanks for taking the time to get back to me. Sparky
 
Hey all. I just took some time to so a side by side comparison of internal footage from the F3 against the same shot recorded at ProRes422 - and I saw a noticable difference in the 'punchyness' of the colours, much more vibrant and worth in my opinion the extra effort of using the external recorder.
 
Can you post some frame grabs? It would also be interesting to further compare it your re-encoded ProRes to MXF footage.
 
..or footage?

No worries, I know it can be a hassle to go through all this so only if you have time or feel like it. I'm saving up for slog right now and next year will look at 422 or 444 recorder for higher end productions none-the-less. I can't say how much I love this F3 and after Canon released their 35mm video camera I loved the F3 even more :D
 
Sparky874 said:
do you think the extra file size and time this then implies in the edit process, is really worth it, if you are not grading
Click to expand...

Personally - no, I don't think it would be worth it.
The biggest advantage to having 10bit 4:2:2 ProRes files in my mind is for the flexibility it gives you in post to grade the footage.
Given your workflow, if you aren't doing any grading I think you'd be better off dialing in your look in-camera and recording internally.

Of course the only way for you to really know is to test it yourself.
Did you record internally onto SXS cards as well as on the Samurai?
If not, I would suggest doing that next time so that you have some footage to compare side by side.

Without grading I think you're simply complicating your workflow without really maximizing the main benefits.
Just my 2 cents.
 
Sparky, have you looked at your PC (or is it mac you are using)?

Look at a) increasing you RAM to 16gb, 24gb or 32gb, and b) ensure you have a fast multi-disc RAID. I use an eight-disc RAID5 with PPro and it's doesn't lock up when using lots of ProRes files.
 
I live in the SF Bay Area. No one I know has upgraded to SLog and most people are happily using the internal codec. As a client of mine who owns an F3 said yesterday - Why is it so expensive? However most of my crowd is using F3 for industrials and docs. MKaybe if it were for spots or higher end image pieces or features it might be different.The rental houses have said the clients who rent their F3's don't have time for extended color correction and if they do and add the price for a recorder and sLog rentral they just go with a RED pr an Alexa.

I would love to get a Samurai and sLog but so far can't afford the $6K investments since I don't think I can pay for it. Hope that changes for me, or that Sony finally drops the price of SLog to reasonable level. I am lusting.
 
starcentral said:
..or footage?

No worries, I know it can be a hassle to go through all this so only if you have time or feel like it. I'm saving up for slog right now and next year will look at 422 or 444 recorder for higher end productions none-the-less. I can't say how much I love this F3 and after Canon released their 35mm video camera I loved the F3 even more :D
Click to expand...

Buy the 422 recorder first.... not sLog. U will get much more mileage out of it. Then rent slog as needed. It rents for like $75 a day. Plus if u have the recorder, all your footage can be amazing.
 
Log is an owner/operator product. It gives you the visual edge wth the benefits to pay off over time slowly as most own/ops do. You can remain competetive, in price but still have the camera provide you with a healthy living.
 
TimurCivan said:
Buy the 422 recorder first.... not sLog. U will get much more mileage out of it. Then rent slog as needed. It rents for like $75 a day. Plus if u have the recorder, all your footage can be amazing.
Click to expand...

Absolutely right. A Samurai costs around £1000 here in the UK and isn't really a big investment. And as well as recording better looking material, and material that is suitable for HD broadcast, it is also a great way of backing up material as well. Using a 750 gig hard drive in the Samurai can record around 12 hours of ProRes 422 footage - and this is for around £100. That's amazing value. And once the Samurai is sitting on the back of your camera you don't have to worry about it all with syn recording. So just shoot your 12 hours, then store it away somewhere safe. There is a noticeable difference in picture quality going to ProRes422 - and I will always try to shoot the best footage I can within my means, so it just makes sense to use it.
 
powervideo said:
Sparky, have you looked at your PC (or is it mac you are using)?

Look at a) increasing you RAM to 16gb, 24gb or 32gb, and b) ensure you have a fast multi-disc RAID. I use an eight-disc RAID5 with PPro and it's doesn't lock up when using lots of ProRes files.
Click to expand...

Hi Peter, thanks for taking the time to advise. The thing is, I am PC based and use Sony Vegas (version 11 now) - and I can have 15 hours of MXF files 50mbps, and it just runs along smoothly without any real issues, but bring in a certain number of ProRes files and it does struggle. Maybe this is a PC/ProRes conflict issues rather than Ram or drive issue. But I've a good friend who builds PC's and I'll ask him to look into it for me.
 
TimurCivan said:
Log is an owner/operator product. It gives you the visual edge wth the benefits to pay off over time slowly as most own/ops do. You can remain competetive, in price but still have the camera provide you with a healthy living.
Click to expand...

Hi there. I notice in an earlier thread, you were a Sony Vegas user (I think so anyhow!). Are you still using Vegas to edit your F3 material? Can you edit S-LOG material with Vegas? I don't think is is possible? Thanks.
 
You can cut slog in anything. Slog is just a gamma curve the camera applies to the signal.

I did use vegas, but I switched to mac, so now I Don't really edit anything cause I have no idea how FCP works.
 
In my experience, there is very little visual gain in using an outboard recorder at higher bitrates with all the complications attached. I regularly work for a few reputable international networks and they are all fine with 35mbs 420. For exemple, Nat Geo Channel has approved 35mbs 420 on the F3 for acquisition. So, MPEG-2 420 is certainly not the best codec but it offers a tremendous balance between quality, ease of use and storage requirements. Your mileage may vary, espeically if you need to grade and reversion a lot. Then, a 422 color space codec at highter bit rate maybe a good choice.

Thierry.
 
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