Im about to buy my film making set up and was wondering what your guys opinion is on this particular camera when it comes to film making? Ofcourse I want to get as close to 35mm look as possible and will more than likely by a Letus35 adapter for whichever camera I go with to give me lens control. So with that in mind is this the camera for me? If not what do you recommend around the same price range?
How is the HMC150 for fim making?
- Thread starter pogosmoke
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Mike Harvey
Veteran
Wow... where to start...
First, I love this camera. BUUUUUUT... it's a 1/3 camera, so it's going to have pretty deep DoF. That said, shallow DoF is not the end all to be all, and I think that too many people get hung up on it. That's not to discount it, but it's merely a tool in your box. I mean, no one ever sold a production because it had shallow DoF. Now, if DoF is your thing, then you might be better off either getting a GH1, 7D, or similar, or waiting until the end of the year when AF100 comes out. A HMC + Letus is going to starting putting you in that ball park anyways for price, and the AF100 probably will be a lot easier to use.
My question is, what do you mean by "film making camera"? What are you planning on doing with it exactly? Documentaries? A web series a la "The Guild"? Corporate/Commercial production? A full length dramatic film? "Film making" these days covers a lot of ground, and often a camera with shallow Depth of Field may or may not really be needed for the end viewer.
First, I love this camera. BUUUUUUT... it's a 1/3 camera, so it's going to have pretty deep DoF. That said, shallow DoF is not the end all to be all, and I think that too many people get hung up on it. That's not to discount it, but it's merely a tool in your box. I mean, no one ever sold a production because it had shallow DoF. Now, if DoF is your thing, then you might be better off either getting a GH1, 7D, or similar, or waiting until the end of the year when AF100 comes out. A HMC + Letus is going to starting putting you in that ball park anyways for price, and the AF100 probably will be a lot easier to use.
My question is, what do you mean by "film making camera"? What are you planning on doing with it exactly? Documentaries? A web series a la "The Guild"? Corporate/Commercial production? A full length dramatic film? "Film making" these days covers a lot of ground, and often a camera with shallow Depth of Field may or may not really be needed for the end viewer.
matt s.
Veteran
Shot one feature with stock 150 and about to go into production on another feature using the same set up. Personally I like wide shots and for any CU I always use the long end of the lens which will give you some shallow depth. I would rather shoot with the 150 instead of a frankenstein rig of a DSLR. I do like the look of the DSLR but honestly I like a camera I can pick up and shoot with and have real audio inpus plus a headphone jack and also be able to get decent handheld shots without any type of rig if needed. The story and acting will make your film better than shaloow DOF.
I'm also currently shooting a full length low budget feature using the HMC and I have managed to get some really nice shots with fairly shallow DOF using the long end of the lens as mentioned above. I thought about a DSLR but I'm glad I went down this (more flexible) route instead. Learning to love this cam .
I only need a few shallow DOF shots in my film here and there.
I only need a few shallow DOF shots in my film here and there.
nageswara rao s
Member
thank you guys and also Matt s. you have given the importance of shallow depth of field as well as the important part of the movie making that it is " The story and acting will make your film better than shaloow DOF." what is the name of the movie you shot. is it released theatrically. what is transfer costs hd to film you incurred. i want to know that can you please provide that to me.
matt s.
Veteran
Leach is the title of the movie. There is a link to the site in my sig but it doesnt contain any video just info and production stills. This was a low budget film. At this point we are submitting to festivals and we have no intentions on transferring to film unless a miracle happens lol. We have shown in several theatres and the best was a projection thru an extremely high end theater system that was fairly new ($150k+ Texas Instruments Projector) where we hooked up a mac pro straight to the projector and projected a high bitrate HD .h264 file. Looked really really good. We have projected SD dvd as well and I must say it looked good too. It is all in the projection systems.
snowleopard
Well-known member
Just want to say I agree with everyone on here. Especially this statement from Matt:
That is something so many of us lose site of. Yes, you can likely get more cinematic shooting with a Canon 5D than the HMC150. But as the old saying goes, it's the carpenter, not the tools. Great gear is no substitute for skill - someone who really knows how to shoot is far more important than the gear. And beyond that is the skill of compelling viewers to watch through quality content.
Also agree on what Matt said on shooting with DSLRs. I thought I'd love shooting a DSLR as I shot miles and miles of 35mm still film and once worked in a lab. I was wrong. Camcorders are designed to shoot moving pictures. The size, ergonomics, audio inputs, auto features, everything. That to me has shown to be far more significant than shallow DOF. To me DSLR's are for shooting higher budget with more time per set-up and more crew, or specialty shots. They are not for everyday use, and not for truly independent filmmaking IMO.
That is something so many of us lose site of. Yes, you can likely get more cinematic shooting with a Canon 5D than the HMC150. But as the old saying goes, it's the carpenter, not the tools. Great gear is no substitute for skill - someone who really knows how to shoot is far more important than the gear. And beyond that is the skill of compelling viewers to watch through quality content.
Also agree on what Matt said on shooting with DSLRs. I thought I'd love shooting a DSLR as I shot miles and miles of 35mm still film and once worked in a lab. I was wrong. Camcorders are designed to shoot moving pictures. The size, ergonomics, audio inputs, auto features, everything. That to me has shown to be far more significant than shallow DOF. To me DSLR's are for shooting higher budget with more time per set-up and more crew, or specialty shots. They are not for everyday use, and not for truly independent filmmaking IMO.
DPStewart
Veteran
EXACTLY.
They make a great second camera for doing the occasional shallow DOF scene but you MUST have ALL the other film making hardware and equipment first before you can add DSLR into the equation.
nageswara rao s
Member
what is the production cost of your movie? By sending to film festivals you can get recognition. are there any ways to generate revenues to get money for your next movie. how can you do that? are you going to sell it for satellite tv channels.
actually hmc 150 bit rate is 24mbps. but how can you make it high bit rate file . what is that count of bit rate of file you upgraded.
your explanation is more valuable to me. in India most of the projection systems are old, so we have to make it transfer to film for theatrical exhibition.
thank you for your advices in advance.
snowleopard
Well-known member
Nageswara - I have not been to India, but I imagine it won't be too long before relatively inexpensive digital projectors are both in theaters in India, and owned by people, or something you can rent and set-up without paying too much money.
Here is a Viewsonic DLP projector that shoots only SD. But in a small theater with a good screen, this might look plenty good enough. Only $400.
Here is a glimpse into the future. A small camera that also works as a projector. Only 640x480, and probably not very bright, so only good for home use, or a small room like in a school or hall. But it's only $199.
In a few short years you will see these same prices on projectors that are HD, plus a lot brighter and clearer picture quality you can project nicely on a 30' screen without much of a problem.
Here is a Viewsonic DLP projector that shoots only SD. But in a small theater with a good screen, this might look plenty good enough. Only $400.
Here is a glimpse into the future. A small camera that also works as a projector. Only 640x480, and probably not very bright, so only good for home use, or a small room like in a school or hall. But it's only $199.
In a few short years you will see these same prices on projectors that are HD, plus a lot brighter and clearer picture quality you can project nicely on a 30' screen without much of a problem.
Justyn
Veteran
Good posts one and all.... and this is somewhat of the difficult decision that I"m debating right now. I own a 150 and have access to others so I would be completely setup for my feature without buying any equipment. I'm planning on shooting atleast 2 cameras the whole time and possibly a 3rd since a lot of this will be on location, greenscreened, and also in crowded real working locations where we might only get one shot at a scene....
Now, though the dillema is that I've been shooting a lot with the 7D and admittedly it has some really big quirks and not as elegant and functional and reliable... BUT MAN... when you get everything dialed in it just has a really dreamy and soft and cinematic quality... Not just talking about the DOF... but just how it deals with light and handles persepctive and detail. I am pretty much convinced that I"m going to be shooting with a DSLR... BUT.. Hopefully It will be 2 AF100's and then I'll be set.
I'm not as concerned with the audio controls though as I want to shoot split system sound as a lot of this will be on steadicam.. A big deal is to be able to monitor though and I also really want a waveform, zebras and such... I totally don't think that shooting with a lense adapter gives you anymore advantage over a DSLR though.. and they are a pain. That dodo I believe has flown the coop....
Now, with that being said, the HMC150s will be utilized to shoot the behind the scenes and the interviews and all of that stuff that I so often neglect too do... It's a GREAT camera and you wouldn't do yourself wrong depending upon the budget and crew... but when you see what you can get out of the DSLR.. it's a nagging feeling that you get... It just looks so good.
Speaking of that.. Recently my buddy was on the big 30 person crew for the Dick's sporting goods shoot.. It wasn't being shot on the F900 this year, or even film... it was being shot on the 5D and the client and crew agreed that it looked better than all of the others... And that's really saying something cause for them, it's not about the budget....
I also think that when we talk of our films.. we shouldn't mention that they are low-budget, but that they are personally funded and when you consider all of the hours that you put in... if you were to pay yourself... well then it really is a 2 million dollar film. Think about it... I know for my stuff, I'm telling people it's just under a million and I'm happy in that truth, cause that's really what it would be costing if someone else were paying...
Now, though the dillema is that I've been shooting a lot with the 7D and admittedly it has some really big quirks and not as elegant and functional and reliable... BUT MAN... when you get everything dialed in it just has a really dreamy and soft and cinematic quality... Not just talking about the DOF... but just how it deals with light and handles persepctive and detail. I am pretty much convinced that I"m going to be shooting with a DSLR... BUT.. Hopefully It will be 2 AF100's and then I'll be set.
I'm not as concerned with the audio controls though as I want to shoot split system sound as a lot of this will be on steadicam.. A big deal is to be able to monitor though and I also really want a waveform, zebras and such... I totally don't think that shooting with a lense adapter gives you anymore advantage over a DSLR though.. and they are a pain. That dodo I believe has flown the coop....
Now, with that being said, the HMC150s will be utilized to shoot the behind the scenes and the interviews and all of that stuff that I so often neglect too do... It's a GREAT camera and you wouldn't do yourself wrong depending upon the budget and crew... but when you see what you can get out of the DSLR.. it's a nagging feeling that you get... It just looks so good.
Speaking of that.. Recently my buddy was on the big 30 person crew for the Dick's sporting goods shoot.. It wasn't being shot on the F900 this year, or even film... it was being shot on the 5D and the client and crew agreed that it looked better than all of the others... And that's really saying something cause for them, it's not about the budget....
I also think that when we talk of our films.. we shouldn't mention that they are low-budget, but that they are personally funded and when you consider all of the hours that you put in... if you were to pay yourself... well then it really is a 2 million dollar film. Think about it... I know for my stuff, I'm telling people it's just under a million and I'm happy in that truth, cause that's really what it would be costing if someone else were paying...
snowleopard
Well-known member
I notice similar. Though I'm not shooting any commercials, a LOT of them in town are now being shot on either the 5D or 1D Mark IV, with external audio and a lot of post work with Pluralize and plugins and such to fix rolling shutter issues and other problems.
I have been shooting with a pair of HMC150's for a while now, and really like the results the cam gives, and its high degree of reliability.
But I just got back from WEVA last week, and was amazed to see how DSLR's are starting to dominate the scene there. A lot (most) of the better known names there have started shooting 100% DSLR. It was surprising how many were doing that.
After seeing just what they are capable of up front like that, I will be adding a 5D MKII very soon. I will still keep the HMC's though.
But I just got back from WEVA last week, and was amazed to see how DSLR's are starting to dominate the scene there. A lot (most) of the better known names there have started shooting 100% DSLR. It was surprising how many were doing that.
After seeing just what they are capable of up front like that, I will be adding a 5D MKII very soon. I will still keep the HMC's though.
snowleopard
Well-known member
Well, as I said in another thread, while DSLRs can produce a great picture, I think it's a mistake when people use them as the only camera for everything. Having to deal with various issues (audio, ergonomics, rolling shutter, etc), it requires often more set-up to deal with, and more post production as well. Again, this is just my opinion, but I think DSLRs are good for special situations and would never abandon a camcorder for one.
The commercial shoots I speak of in town using DSLRs are not by small teams with 3-5 people kicking spots out. They are by larger productions that have the time and manpower to set-up shots, the same way they would with a Varicam. Plus they have the time and money for post production to deal with issues on that end as well.
The commercial shoots I speak of in town using DSLRs are not by small teams with 3-5 people kicking spots out. They are by larger productions that have the time and manpower to set-up shots, the same way they would with a Varicam. Plus they have the time and money for post production to deal with issues on that end as well.
nageswara rao s
Member
I didn’t mean to say that, but in India most of the projection systems are film based old systems. Now a days since 6-8 years, in metros 30-40% of theatres are digital, in towns 15% are digitized since 3 years. In small towns are film based. In India totally only 5-10% are digitized cinema systems are compared to 90% in north America and Europe. . for home purposes even a higher middle class people having projector based systems.
Digital exhibition is less cost with hard disk or others , but for wider audience to reach we have to rely on film transfers costs at all for theatrical releases.
any way thank you Snow leopard and others too.......
nageswara rao s
Member
yes you are right. but we are passionate to make a film, so initially we never count our services rendered i.e leaving a job, lose of income, investing in production. if we count them at beginning itself, budget is more what we thought at first. if we succeed in film making, go for livelihood from that. otherwise our ego, dreams may be satisfied up to some extent.
both DSLR's and prof camcorders are good, but they may not replace one and another, they substitute in situations when warrants. we are selecting them according to their merits over others, and also based on suitability of operating it by us, not merely budget. a good prof DSLR available at $1500-2500, whereas same quality prof camcorder availabel at $3500 and above. first one gives best quality cinema like look, whereas later gives ergonomics and more, because it made for capture moving pictures. Not only that we preferring others to use one equip for one situation, at same time we are using other one for same situation.
thank you all for your precious time for discussing here.