How Important is Learning the Science of Light

[morgan_moore]

It is interesting you touch on colour. Up till 2023 i never used a colour ever.
(OK I a made a red spaceship INT)

I had some panics about office strip lights.

In the rgb age mugging up on “colour theory” is worth it

Is that art or science.

 

[CharlesPapert]

I probably use less color in the RGB era than I did when instruments were either daylight or tungsten. How many years did I shlep around my personal arsenal of "party gels"? I've always liked to play sources up and down the color temp scale, and it's nice to be able to do that with more precision and speed on the dial vs deciding between 1/4 and 1/2 CTB. But unless I'm matching to a source that pushes into a different hue, I'm unlikely to just blast washes of color into a scene without rhyme or reason. Not really my style.

 

[briandrys1]

The way artists study colour may be of assistance, although it would also involve the art director and DP in the producing the final image: https://drawpaintacademy.com/a-comprehensive-guide-to-color-theory-for-artists/

 

[morgan_moore]

CP. Yes the party gel pack is a pretty unsubtle brush.

Im just noting that we be able to bring something new in the RGB era.

(fundamentally natural light tends not to be purple or whatever.. hense we dont choose purple fixtures?)

Worst is you get a script with a character who has cracked the cyber criminals code. This character is called Gerald he is a youtuber and his lair has a purple wash.. that you must recreate!

Here Im photoing yours truly with some colour effect in play.. (as a learning experience) each look is just twizzling a knob on the amaran.. so that is a lot to be able to 'offer'

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[markfpv]

Am I the only one that still loves the dogma movement?

No. You are not. Some really good, powerful films created by good filmmakers during that time.
A great reminder that story and performance are what most movie goers remember about "films".

 

[CharlesPapert]

each look is just twizzling a knob on the amaran..

It's a mostly good and a little bad thing! The good part is the "let's experiment on the day" aspect, you can try out different looks and minutely tailor the hue and saturation while looking at the monitor to arrive at a mutually pleasing result. The downside is that it sometimes offers overindulgence, colors being introduced without much rhyme or reason. I think that this early RGB light era of filmmaking will be known for these deep saturated washes, the "we can, so we do" era.

It's also part of the demystifying and democratizing of the DP's role, which is once again why we have so many now. It's just easier to get things done. Without falling too deeply into the "in my day..." stuff, there was something about the process of researching particular gels for a color gag, testing them and committing to a particular choice. I'm thinking about the Key & Peele "Les Mis" sketch, where we built an overhead rig that was the primary source for the scene. I had to look back at the thread here to remember specifics, apparently I selected Lee 241 to match the cyan ambience on the street from the "One More Day" clip from the movie. But, there were no guarantees it would look just right, and I was very relieved that it did, along with enough exposure from the five 2K blondes that the gel was modifying in the truss rig. A few years later we'd just sling a bunch of Skypanels up there and dial in the color to taste.

 

[morgan_moore]

im maybe not much for experenting on the day.. but that the bad guys could have a mild cyan in their hair is a place ive not been before.

 

[ahalpert]

Y'all remember in Mesrine: Killer Instinct when Vincent Cassel walks through red light into blue light after getting laid? Like his fire got doused.

Couldn't find that shot quickly but there was a lot of beautiful use of red and blue lighting in that film. I loved that movie:

But I wouldn't want to offend the symbolism agnostics on the forum. I'm sure these are all just random color choices that look cool and have nothing to do with the interior of the characters.

 

[ahalpert]

Here Im photoing yours truly with some colour effect in play.. (as a learning experience) each look is just twizzling a knob on the amaran..

We all know how much Sam likes to twizzle his knob

 

[CharlesPapert]

Or, knob his twizzlers

 

[Peter C.]

A mentor once told me “If Once You Start Down The Dark Path, Forever Will It Dominate Your Destiny.”

 

[morgan_moore]

We all know how much Sam likes to twizzle his knob

Of course.
But also acknowledge that clip im getting some looks.

There was a submarine film. Commie sub was red light. Yanks had the same prop lit blue?

 

[CharlesPapert]

There was a submarine film.

well, now you are reminding me that I shot a show in a submarine 15 years ago and I used all kinds of color in there. We used Colorblasts, which were small RGB theatrical lights.

 

[ahalpert]

Of course.
But also acknowledge that clip im getting some looks.

There was a submarine film. Commie sub was red light. Yanks had the same prop lit blue?

Yeah it's impressive how much the emotional resonance changes with just those color adjustments.

Making a masturbation joke was not a comment on the substance of your post. I just saw the opportunity.

I've started using a cool backlight on wedding toasts (maybe 4500k as opposed to the key at 2800k, they're bicolor not RGB). it's not like a party gel but it reads pretty blue by comparison and gives a nice theatrical touch and I think the color separation enhances the modeling.



The thing I don't like about RGB lights is the color quality never seems to match bicolor fixtures. Like if you look at the Amaran 60x s or the Aputure Storm 1200x - they're got their SSI under manners. RGB lights are appreciably worse in that regard. So if I'm not planning on doing a saturated color thing, then I'm not starting out with an RGB light on the stand. And if it's not on the stand, I can't simply change my mind and switch it to a saturated color. I've got to change out the light. I've got an Amaran 150c that I rarely use. It also doesn't help that you lose so much output if you go to a deeply saturated color and really I'd like that unit to be 2 stops brighter at least. ...but it could be interesting to make the above backlight a deep blue instead if I put a 150c there instead of a 60x s...

Was the submarine film Hunt for Red October?

 

[Tom Roper]

According to this, the actual use of red lighting on submarines is a highly relevant example, the science of light, not for aesthetic, emotional or symbolic intents. The long controlled wavelengths for dark visibility, regulation of melatonin for sleep, and crew well being the reasons all navies are using it.

The use of blue is apparently fictional.

 

[Peter C.]

Sounds like a commercial for the Navy. After hammering home how important red light @ 3:20 they say that bright light is important for navigation and the control room. huh?

 

[CharlesPapert]

I've started using a cool backlight on wedding toasts (maybe 4500k as opposed to the key at 2800k, they're bicolor not RGB). it's not like a party gel but it reads pretty blue by comparison and gives a nice theatrical touch and I think the color separation enhances the modeling.

View attachment 5712223

That looks nice! Working the cool/warm spectrum is always going to look natural because we experience this in our daily lives--incandescent lamps during the day mixing with daylight coming through windows. Direct sun is warmer than ambient daylight. As I mentioned in earlier post in this thread, I've long added CTB/CTO onto units to give some variation within a scene for a more natural effect. The frame grab below was shot on stage, so all artificial light. The "sun" skip on the floor is quite a bit warmer than the ambient I pushed in through the windows, plus it picks up more warmth from the carpet. The glow on the wall seen in the window is mirroring the carpet bounce so I made it warmer, to contrast against the cool day ambience on the bed. All by design to make it feel more naturalistic.

 

[morgan_moore]

Making a masturbation joke was not a comment on the substance of your post. I just saw the opportunity.

I've started using a cool backlight on wedding toasts (maybe 4500k as opposed to the key at 2800k, they're bicolor not RGB). it

Yes it was that submarine film.

I can take the jokes.no problem . but for 2024 'DOPs' some RGB thinking and discussion might be relevant. I like the backlit wedding woman

 

[ahalpert]

That looks nice! Working the cool/warm spectrum is always going to look natural because we experience this in our daily lives--incandescent lamps during the day mixing with daylight coming through windows. Direct sun is warmer than ambient daylight. As I mentioned in earlier post in this thread, I've long added CTB/CTO onto units to give some variation within a scene for a more natural effect. The frame grab below was shot on stage, so all artificial light. The "sun" skip on the floor is quite a bit warmer than the ambient I pushed in through the windows, plus it picks up more warmth from the carpet. The glow on the wall seen in the window is mirroring the carpet bounce so I made it warmer, to contrast against the cool day ambience on the bed. All by design to make it feel more naturalistic.
View attachment 5712224

yeah that looks terrific. I think you posted this shot once before and I had the same reaction. I can't actually tell that it was shot on a stage. I wouldn't want to be in her shoes, though. Or her sheet, rather. She looks like she's in deep sheet.

 

[Tom Roper]

I wouldn't want to be in her shoes, though. Or her sheet, rather. She looks like she's in deep sheet.

The interpretation of a photograph is its own story that could be far more interesting than the screenplay. I have the same reaction to the picture, a "what have I done" moment.