how important is a sound mixer?

J

Joe Brie

New member
Hello,

For a very heavy dialogue driven, one location movie, how important is it to have a sound mixer? I was under the impression it was a must but now I've been getting feedback that it's not really necessary at all for a project of my type. If two guys are talking on a couch or doing a bit of walking and talking will just a boom op suffice?

I don't want to skimp on sound and will spend for the sound mixer even if the quality is a little bit better, but if there is literally no difference at all then I would like to save the money for other uses.

All insight and feedback appreciated.

Thank you.
 
If you can afford a sound person, get a sound person.

It's not a question of "mixer" vs. "boom op" at all. If the project warrants a full sound crew, including a mixer with his/her own cart plus a boom op or two, that's one thing. If it's a smaller project with only two actors and minimal locations, you can get away with a recordist who runs out of a bag instead of a cart.
 
Depends.
If this is just another youtube movie flash in the pan thing then I wouldn't worry about it.
If it is a project that you really care about and want to be the best you can make it, then absolutely!
 
Wether you get more "quality" has more to do with who you hire than how many. The plus with two people is that one can focus on mic placement and the other can concentrate on the sound. If it's one person then you cant really make many/any adjustments in a take. So if the actors decide to go for the cheap seats you can't really yank down on the level and save the rest of the scene. You also make better, more critical sound decisions when your not focusing on mic placement. I've done all the combos and I can say I'm a better mixer when I'm not booming and a better boom op when I'm not mixing.

It's hard to say how much of a difference and as I mentioned it's more about who. I would trade one experienced guy for two inexperienced guys in a heartbeat.

So if that's the choice I would goose up the pay a bit and get one experienced person.
 
I have a Oade-moded PMD-661 with only one mike... what would a mixer do for me other than offering better preamps, if the mixer is actually better than the recorder for that?

Recording volume can be controlled from the recorder... and you also have a -20dB option for the second channel.

Is there another purpose for a sound mixer, like the SD 302? When your recorder can only record two channels and you have, for instance, 4 microphones, that's when the mixer comes in?

Thanks!
 
Iudex said:
I have a Oade-moded PMD-661 with only one mike... what would a mixer do for me other than offering better preamps, if the mixer is actually better than the recorder for that?

Recording volume can be controlled from the recorder... and you also have a -20dB option for the second channel.

Is there another purpose for a sound mixer, like the SD 302? When your recorder can only record two channels and you have, for instance, 4 microphones, that's when the mixer comes in?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I have the 302 and used to have the 661 also modded by Oade. Very nice recorder. That being said the mixer gives you a level of control that isn't possible on just the recorder. Those tiny knobs just aren't that handy IMO. In addition you get a very effective limiter on both the inputs and outputs, and a headphone amp that will take your head off if you turn it up too loud. The 661 has a very wimpy headphone amp. If you were in a loud situation you'd be hard pressed to monitor your recording. The metering is very accurate and easy to see even in bright sunlight and the inputs can be easily adjusted for just about any source line or mic. If you're doing very simple recording then no you don't need a mixer but it will give you so much more control than just the recorder.
Bernie
 
Ditto what Bernie said. Great limiters, bright LEDs, good headphone amp...

Also, the 661 doesn't work great in a bag since the controls are on top instead of on the side like the 302. (Granted on one shoot I didn't have a bag and made my mixer a gaff tape sling and wire-tied my recorder to my mixer, it was not convenient though)

Iudex said:
Is there another purpose for a sound mixer, like the SD 302? When your recorder can only record two channels and you have, for instance, 4 microphones, that's when the mixer comes in?
Click to expand...

With 2-channels, even 3 mic's presents some issues :)

Also, a large advantage of mixers is that they give you high quality line-output(s). You run this both to your recorder and to camera. If you only have a headphone amp to feed camera, the camera's audio will be all over the map whenever you adjust the headphone level to hear what's going on.
 
Iudex said:
I have a Oade-moded PMD-661 with only one mike... what would a mixer do for me other than offering better preamps, if the mixer is actually better than the recorder for that?

Recording volume can be controlled from the recorder... and you also have a -20dB option for the second channel.

Is there another purpose for a sound mixer, like the SD 302? When your recorder can only record two channels and you have, for instance, 4 microphones, that's when the mixer comes in?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

All good but the OP is talking about a "Mixer" person not a box. The Mixer would probably use a mixer ;~)
 
Limiters on a mixer are simple cut-offs to prevent saturation? They really work well? Do they softly curve down the wave? To prevent saturation the 661 has the option to record on the second channel at -20dB, but it can't be used if recording stereo of course. So the mixer provides the ability to record three channels and automatically apply limiters separately when needed? That would be one very clear advantage. Do all mixers have this?

You're right on the headphone amp, it isn't really very amplifiable at all. I have it always at max level and it sounds, "normal" to put it someway.

It's true that the leds aren't very useful, but the display meters are, at least for me. The downside is that I will have to get a bag with a transparent plastic on the front to be able to see the display and the recording controls, as Gohanto said.
 
If you can affort 2 people, have 2... A mixer and a boomoperator.

As said before: it's more easy to boom fluently and perfectly when you don't have a "heavy" bag hanging around you. Same for mixing, when there's 1 boom, 3 wireless...they all have to be mixed.
It's not just "push rec and let go".... If the combination of 4 mices is mixed properly...that mix might be used in the final result...

With one person, it's not undo-able, but from the moment ther's a lot of walking, wide shots, lot's of movement... 2 is better.
 
First one needs to note that the OP is not talking about hardware but people, so this is really an OT side step.

Limiters in theory keep the level from going over a point you set. They should do it in a smooth and barely noticeable way. In practice SD's limiters are one of a very limited group that actually do this. Many "limiters" on recorders are too gentle so you have to set them quite a bit lower to actually keep from clipping and a lot have slow reaction times so they act more like AGC's than limiters.

Saturation is an analog condition that you don't get in digital, but I think you mean clipping.

Some, like the ones in the MixPre, work very well. Some like the ones built in to the Marantz PMD671 are useless.

A mixer (the box) doesn't record anything, the recorder does the recording. If you have a two track recorder your only going to record two tracks. You could have a big hunkin mixer (the box again) with 100 inputs but if your recording on a two track recorder you will end up with a two track recording not a 100 track recording. Of course you will also need a big hunkin Mixer (the person not the box) to operate the mixer so that those 100 inputs produce a usable two tracks instead of a jumbled up mess.

The plusses for a (good) mixer (the box) are better control, better signal path, better features (EQ, Limiting, etc.) and better flexibility (ins and outs).

The Plusses for a (good) Mixer (the person not the box) are someone dedicated to just getting the best sound. Knowledge, equipment, experience and skill.
Your boom op is also dedicated to sound but they are also doing a visual job so they are not in the best position to just listen. Plus they are loaded with equipment and holding a boom so they can't quickly do other sound activities like rig a lav or move a plant mic.


Iudex said:
Limiters on a mixer are simple cut-offs to prevent saturation? They really work well? Do they softly curve down the wave? To prevent saturation the 661 has the option to record on the second channel at -20dB, but it can't be used if recording stereo of course. So the mixer provides the ability to record three channels and automatically apply limiters separately when needed? That would be one very clear advantage. Do all mixers have this?

You're right on the headphone amp, it isn't really very amplifiable at all. I have it always at max level and it sounds, "normal" to put it someway.

It's true that the leds aren't very useful, but the display meters are, at least for me. The downside is that I will have to get a bag with a transparent plastic on the front to be able to see the display and the recording controls, as Gohanto said.
Click to expand...
 
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