How happy are you owners with the F3?

cckid

cckid

Well-known member
Hi,

I have a huge dilemma and wanted to know how happy are the users of the F3 with their investement...I personally owe a ex3 and ex1 which I use on a daily basis for tv work...I love the picture quality and the overall ease of use of these 2 cameras...now I feel tempted to invest into an f3 camera however I am not sure if this is the best price performance deal on the market today...on commercial projects I see the f3 as the main camera and the EX3 as the b camera - specialising in close up shots...I love the fact that the f3 has all the professional inputs and outputs in terms of hdsi, timecode, genlock and of course the size of the sensor also appeals to me...I love also the fact the batteries and cards are compatible with my ex1 line...however I cant understand how a camera of this price range doesnt shoot 1080p in 60frames...the fs 100 can do that and it is 2,5 cheaper...ok I know the f3 will be able to do that with the very pricey upgrade...so I was wandering how are the owners of the f3 happy so far with its performance and what is your lense kit you use the most...I wont be able to afford expensive lesnes such as CP.2 or similar and will probably go with the nikon route at the beginning...hopefully we will see also a birger mount for canon l lenses down the line...2 more questions...what is the nd filter density...do you use also additional evf monitors on top or are you happy with the existent lcd monitor that is on the camera...please write you good/bad experience you have had so far...what kind of steadicam you usually operate the f3 with?
 
That's really a number of different questions...

As a PMW-F3 owner who also has both an EX3 and an EX1... I'm exceptionally happy. The fact is, there's no camera priced under the Alexa that can top the F3 in terms of quality and flexibility for a 1080p camera.

You mention the lack of 1080 60p. Let's clarify - the PMW-F3 cannot record 1080 60p *internally*, but by default, without additional upgrade, the PMW-F3 can output an uncompressed 1080 60p signal, to any capable recorder. And that uncompressed stream far exceeds the picture quality available on the 60p of the FS100 or AF100.

I shoot with cine-modded Zeiss ZF lenses and an MTF-Nikon adapter. Works like a charm.

I don't tend to use a separate EVF. Certainly would be useful at times, but it's not been my top priority.

No clue on a Steadicam. If I work a shoot that needs a Steadicam, I budget a Steadicam operator, and make sure he can handle the payload.
 
I think you will find the majority of people here, myself included ideally want a proper REAL EVF for the F3 and at a minimum an external monitor like a Marshall, TV Logic, SmallHD, etc.

As an EX3 owner, you will find the present crop of EVFs that are really designed for the DSLR users are substandard compared to an EX3's LCD with snoot & diopter.

I would strongly suggest since this seems to be a "nice to have" kind of purchase since you are weighing your options, that you wait a few weeks until the FS-100 hits the streets and give them both a spin.

I have an F3 and like it a lot. I own an EX3 but now I realize how good the EX3 is in terms of design and utility, not only against the F3 but also other cameras from other manufacturers. You are buying at a relatively good time with the FS-100 coming out so you can lay your hands on it and decide what truly fits your needs and business model.

The big downside I would say for you with the FS-100 would be the lack of internal ND filters. You would have to go with a screw on variable ND filter on the fronts of your lenses or a mattebox with ND's.
 
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To clarify - I don't have a 3rd party EVF. I'd love one, but I'd like it to be better than the current crop designed for DSLRS.

But... I do have and use both a 7" Marshall monitor, and a 24" Production Monitor.

I also make heavy use of the peaking function on the F3 to help pull focus.

The additional downside of the FS100 is you're limited to 8bit recording.
 
I have 2 EX-3 as well and have the F-3. I too have a full set of Zeiss ZF's which are beautiful.

It's the best of both worlds. You can go budget and size friendly with the ZF's, record internally, or slap on the PL's and 422 or 444 recorder and get the bigger jobs. Doing just that this month, interviews and b-roll for PSA type video, internal rec w/ ZF's, and later in the month doing a 7 day with 2 F-3's, Arri Alura Zoom and Optimo Zoom, AJA mini recording 422 prores etc. It's a good buy, no doubt. And the picture quality is so good that 720 @ 60fps is not even an issue. Your clients would never know the difference if they had to choose. It's been tested, that people can rarely tell the difference between 720 and 1080 even projected. How much slowmo do you do anyway...
 
How often do you actually need 1080 60p? As an F3 owner, you have three basic options if you have *occasional* client requests for 1080 60p: Rent a recorder on as needed basis, buy a qualified Blackmagic card for your desktop or laptop that supports it ($600-$1000) for direct recording, or third - just rent an FS100 or AF100.

There's no need to own every little thing, if you don't need it frequently...

EDIT: And most importantly - whichever you do, *bill* the client for it! If they can't afford to pay for it, then they should settle for 720 60p.
 
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I am insanely, insanely, insanely happy. I smile ear to ear everytime the camera turns on. For the record I hate the SXS door.
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As far as 1080p 60p, we record it out to a external recorder. Plus the 720p off the cam is so sharp that it intercuts with 1080 quite well.
 
Very Happy. High end paint commercial on Friday, Indie short horror film on Sat. A lot of range, and after testing the S log, RGB option, and still doing so, WOW!
 
Viddovation said:
How often do you actually need 1080 60p? As an F3 owner, you have three basic options if you have *occasional* client requests for 1080 60p: Rent a recorder on as needed basis, buy a qualified Blackmagic card for your desktop or laptop that supports it ($600-$1000) for direct recording, or third - just rent an FS100 or AF100.

There's no need to own every little thing, if you don't need it frequently...

EDIT: And most importantly - whichever you do, *bill* the client for it! If they can't afford to pay for it, then they should settle for 720 60p.
Click to expand...

In truth, I use it at almost every shoot I've done with my AF100. I do a lot of action stuff so people want it as a possibility. But, given how nice the 720p60 is on the F3 that I've seen, I wouldn't be afraid to use it on my stuff if I were using an F3.
 
Hi,

this is a great debate...thanks for all the useful info...it seems it is a right time to take f3 and the fs100 for a test drive...but I am kinda leaning more to the f3 side...
 
Rick Burnett said:
In truth, I use it at almost every shoot I've done with my AF100. I do a lot of action stuff so people want it as a possibility. But, given how nice the 720p60 is on the F3 that I've seen, I wouldn't be afraid to use it on my stuff if I were using an F3.
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I don't question that some people *need* this feature on a daily basis, and that many people, given a camera that offers it, will use it frequently, simply because it's available, and helps them tell the story.

Everyone has different priorities, and if 1080 60p is necessity, than the AF100 and FS100 become more attractive than the F#, unless you've got the cash to also buy at dual link external recorder.
 
Viddovation said:
Everyone has different priorities... unless you've got the cash to also buy at dual link external recorder.
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Which is why reading his original post I have made it clear he should seriously entertain the FS-100. He's in for a rude kick if he plans to also get into steadicam work. An F3 on a steadicam begets at least a single channel wireless follow focus. Add 5 grand for transmitter, bartech, motor, cables and gak. Depending on the lenses he runs with he is looking at either a $10,000 Steadicam or a $30,000 one. You almost certainly need an AC as well to operate a Steadicam with an F3 who will be pulling focus. The FS-100 is a lot lighter so going that route will save him a lot of headache and probably money concerns if he is serious about doing Steadicam work.
 
I will be testing my FS100 on a Blackbird stabalizer this weekend to see if it is feasible. Gut reaction is yes so far :)
 
Andrew Stone said:
Which is why reading his original post I have made it clear he should seriously entertain the FS-100. He's in for a rude kick if he plans to also get into steadicam work. An F3 on a steadicam begets at least a single channel wireless follow focus. Add 5 grand for transmitter, bartech, motor, cables and gak. Depending on the lenses he runs with he is looking at either a $10,000 Steadicam or a $30,000 one. You almost certainly need an AC as well to operate a Steadicam with an F3 who will be pulling focus. The FS-100 is a lot lighter so going that route will save him a lot of headache and probably money concerns if he is serious about doing Steadicam work.
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How does an F3 require a wireless follow focus and the FS100 not? They both have the same shallow depth of field, and payload capacity aside, trying to pull focus while operating a steadicam rig is asking for trouble.
 
Andrew Stone said:
What is the camera payload limit of the Blackbird?
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8lbs.

And you do not need a follow focus with the F3 or FS100. I shot with a 7D on the Blackbird with 30mm at F1.4 ALL the time. If you are shooting shallow DoF, you learn how to track your targets. You make a dry run. Given the distance of the subject to the lens, we've never felt this was a huge problem. Of course, we've missed a shot here and there, but we expect that. Of course, if you just close up the Iris some more if you want to give yourself a little more freedom.

To me, having a steadycam moving (which we do a lot) and the talent moving, and then someone trying to adjust focus at the same time, no thanks, I'm happy with what we do now! :)
 
Rick Burnett said:
And you do not need a follow focus with the F3 or FS100. I shot with a 7D on the Blackbird with 30mm at F1.4 ALL the time. If you are shooting shallow DoF, you learn how to track your targets. You make a dry run. Given the distance of the subject to the lens, we've never felt this was a huge problem. Of course, we've missed a shot here and there, but we expect that. Of course, if you just close up the Iris some more if you want to give yourself a little more freedom.
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Agreed.
 
Well..... I mean... cmon. Stedicam man! The point is to free up camera and actors, having the, go all over is most of the fun!
 
for the record. I love my F3. do I want an Alexa, yes... do I have 80% of what the Alexa can handle... yes - do I still have money in my pocket... yes... so I'm happy haha.
 
Viddovation said:
How does an F3 require a wireless follow focus and the FS100 not? They both have the same shallow depth of field, and payload capacity aside, trying to pull focus while operating a steadicam rig is asking for trouble.
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I did not intend to imply that an FS-100 doesn't require wireless follow focus. I was trying to show the slippery slope of cost when you run a big chip camera on a steadicam. If an FS-100 costs 6 grand and an F3 costs 14, a wireless follow focus setup on an FS-100 is a lot easier to absorb as a purchase. Ohh and an F3 with a PL lens and nothing else is 9lbs. With all the gak you are going to be over 15 lbs easily. F3's suitably kitted out on a Steadicam are going to be north of 20lbs.

And yes, I suppose you could operate your steadicam with a large sensor camera and choke down the iris. In my view, if you are running solo with a steadicam use a purpose built camera like an EX3 or a Panny 170 that does big DOF or go wide which is how many live stage operators work. They seldom use cameras with chips bigger than 2/3" and they usually have AC's pulling focus or ready to pull focus when the operator moves from a wide angle to something narrower.

To each their own.
 
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