How do you NOT choke a client?

D

dwnsthballer

Well-known member
I have this client, who has been a pain in my ass for the last 6 months. He is the most annoying, unorganized, non-logistic person I have ever come across, and if there weren't 150 miles between us, I'd choke him. I'm really a phone call away from cussing him out, but since he is a gospel singer, I feel I would be insulting God if I did that.

We're working on a music video that has been haunting me for the last 6 months. Let me start at he beginning.

POTENTIAL CHOKING INCIDENT #1

So back in January, these guys call me up and want to tape a music performance by one of their artist. They said that all they needed for me to do was to come and shoot it, and that they would pay me, and pick me up and feed me and everything. So me, being the broke college student, see's nothing wrong with that, and agrees. NOW, within this entire conversation, never once did they say it was a MUSIC VIDEO. They kept referring to it as if he was doing a concert and just needed it taped.

So three days before the shoot, I get a call from a friend of theirs who I had done previous work for. She asks me how everything is going and then midway through the conversation, she goes:

Her: So I hear you're doing J Fraze's music video?
Me: J Fra...who? What music video?
Her: I talked to Daren and Q and they said you are doing J Fraze's video this weekend.
Me: I agreed to tape his concert on Saturday, not a music video.
Her: He's doing a concert on Saturday?
Me: Is he? That's what they said I'd be taping this whole time.
Her: All I heard was you're going to be shooting his music video.
Me: Ruthy...I'm going to call you back...

So I call them up, and before I can yell at them, I try to get ALL the info, so that my yelling will be justified, and it turns out that they want a music video. I ask them why they didn't tell me about this from the start (calmly), and they said they assumed I knew what they meant...

WRONG!

If I say I want a car, does that mean I want a Land Rover? No, it just means I want a car. I can't believe these people tried to sneak this one over me, but they quickly made up for it, which leads to incident #2.

POTENTIAL CHOKING INCIDENT #2

So we all sit down and talk about this, because I am a one man crew at the moment and this is a low budget video, plus, I have no idea what I'm shooting this weekend. Normally I like to spend two months preproduction for my music video. They pull out this script and this storyboard and tell me the whole video, which from the storyboard, sounds really cool. They say that they've got everything in place already; the dancers, the locations, everything. All I have to do is direct the performance and tape it.

So I figure, "Hey, why not challenge myself and try this, besides, they've got everything in place. It won't be that hard..."

WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!

The day of the shoot, we get to this...this PLACE. It's suppose to be a scene that takes place in a church, but when we pull up, it's a damn giant storage warehouse! WTF! But you know what, I don't judge books by it's cover, and any house of God is a house of God, so I wait to see in the insides...

Disappointment is all I have to say...

This was the most non-looking church I had ever seen. No pews, no stain glass windows, no pulpit, just big purple walls, some folding chairs and an organ. Come on people! Who did the location scouting? Who invisioned that this place that looked like Joker's hideout could look like a church?

To make matters worse, they originally told me that they had 200 extras confirmed to be apart of this scene to fill the "church" up, but apparently, unknowing to me, that was the day that the number 200 really stood for 30.

Can it get worse? YES! The dancers who were supposed to be the main part of the scene, were only available for 45 minutes because they had to go to a dance competition! Are you serious? 45 WHOLE minutes? On top of that, I have parents nagging in my ear about getting their son on tape, the artist keeps trying to do all this stuff at once, and all this big mess. I wanted to just yell for everyone to STFU, but if this place actually counted as a church, I would have been in trouble.

I know a director's job is to control the set, which I failed at during this shoot, and I admit fault there.
Needless to say, instead of walking away, I shot it, because I needed the money (and they drove me). But let me tell you, it was UGLY! By far the worst video I've shot, so bad that I'm not even going to put my actual name on the director's credit.

POTENTIAL CHOKING INCIDENT #3

Time goes by, and I don't even want to touch the footage, but the artist keeps nagging about it, so I put it on my computer and slap together some crap that looks like a video. I really tried folks to make this look good, but crap shot is crap edited. I had lighting in place, but my lights weren't powerful enough to light this huge space, and everything was just so ugly.

Then the shining moment happens. This artist is actually good friends with legendary hip hop producer, DJ Marley Marl, who just happens to be the producer for his album. I even get a chance to talk to Marley on the phone and he tells me that if this video turns out good, they'll have $5,000 ready for me for the next video, and that he understands everything that's going on, because he's done videos himself and knows the staggering process.

So in a moment of inspiration, I put my creative mind to it, and pull together these scenes to replace the crap that's currently sitting on the timeline. I had found a REAL church with beautiful architecture. I had everything mapped out in my head about how I wanted it to look, the lighting, compositions, camera movement, everything. It would have been real beautiful, but as you know from the rest of the story, something bad is going to happen.

Today (as in Tuesday, July 10th, 2007), we were supposed to be shooting what was the last scenes of the music video. It had been planned for about three weeks. EVERYBODY KNEW about it. But guess what!? The artist has to work today...THE ARTIST HAS TO WORK TODAY! WTF!?

Who the hell goes to work on the day of their music video shoot!? After all this crap, you screw it up by going to damn work, ALL DAY! And you know, it's not bad that he's going to one job, but he's working two jobs today!!@! COME ON! You knew about this shoot way in advance to take off, and if you couldn't, you should have rescheduled it! He then tries to say 'Well can we shoot it at 7PM when I get off"? NO you idiot! There will not be enough sunlight coming in through the church windows to get the right look that I'm going for, plus knowing you, getting off at 7PM means you'll be ready to shoot at 8:30PM, and I will not be driving 150 miles back and forth just for you to screw everything up!

I swear to you, I am tempted to just export this, and shove it to them, because I am not busting my butt for this video anymore. The artist has no appreciation for what goes into a video, and I'm starting to think that outside of a musical note, he has no clue what is going on. I hate people who just think that a 5 minute scene takes 5 minutes to do. I know I always complain about the hardships I have to go through with these videos, and I thought I learned, but apparently I didn't because this happened again.

So if you've read all this, I ask the question again...how do you not choke a client?
 
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You budget up front - explain the budget 10 times, do extensive location scouting, trust nothing they say, and be very strict on when and where the talent will be. Personally I'd run away from this one. 5,000 for a video from a "legendary" producer sounds like crap anyways. The only clients we keep around that we feel like choking have deep pockets and that makes life alot better.

Everything you mentioned sounds pretty normal to me though and you will quickly learn all of the questions to ask and all of things to tell a client (in the nicest way possible) before pre-production begins. And you'll also learn to not forgoe preproduction ever.
 
dwnsthballer said:
...how do you not choke a client?
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Alcohol helps, but it's not much of a long term solution unless you hate your liver.
I don't understand music videos. I've heard a million stories from friends that have worked on music videos. The stories are always the same; they start with "they had no money" and end with "I was just glad it was over".
 
And get a clear contract of what they expect you to do, the hours etc. Add in some clause where if they screw up on their end (i.e. talent not showing up or showing up late) then you get paid for those hours regardless of whether you work on not. People wise up really fast when there's money involved.
 
Hey whats up baller, I know the quality of work you do and I tell you it is hard foe me to understand myself what the client is thinking with some of the crazy sh*t they do. I just shot a video for a cliet that had the treatment for two weeks and then on the day of the shoot wants to change everything........ I would salvage what I could if I were you for the sake of the money but its hard working with these kind of people, and when you are not a big name videographer people tend to try to walk all over you. I would think that when people see some of your work they would want to give you all the room you need to give them the best video you can. GOOD LUCK!
 
sorry you had to go through such a negative experience.

they have demonstrated what they are about, only choice you have to make is if you want to continue to be a part of it as well. if their conduct bothers you, don't fight it ... just move on. some rap producer promising $5k for a future shoot is either not worth it and/or complete BS.

Good luck on the next one. I'm sure it can be the better experience that you deserve.
 
milksac said:
Alcohol helps, but it's not much of a long term solution unless you hate your liver.
I don't understand music videos. I've heard a million stories from friends that have worked on music videos. The stories are always the same; they start with "they had no money" and end with "I was just glad it was over".
Click to expand...

No dude, this is everything! From music videos to shorts and features. If they're just hiring you for camera you're cool but when they expect you to wear multiple hats it's obviously a sign of a low budget shoot. I know of a bunch of stories where people generally want things they can't afford and really don't understand why you can't give it to them or better yet tell you they have a 20,000 budget when they have $5000 or even better, people who're putting the project together not showing up for some of the most important meetings about the project. This is simply a sign of a person really not knowing what goes into this type of thing.
 
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I'm sorry about this. We repeat the "pre-production is 5/7ths of the game" mantra daily. I don't know fractions, but I know the ***t out of some pre-production.

Physical production... What's that?! Oh, and you totally had me at "...Land Rover...".

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Tough experience. Many lessons for you to learn from it. We all get approach everyday by these types of "clients" and you will learn to identify them and move on. Don't be rude just move on.

More importantly, the reason the credit lists are so long on everything from movies to TV to music videos is because all those people are needed to make it good. Take them out for budgetary reasons and you end up with what you paid for: crap.

Tell the guy: Fast, Cheap, Good...pick any two (my sig and my mantra to clients). Assume they want it good, if they want it cheap then they are going to have to invest a lot of time from the artist and crew to get it done well. If they don't understand that, walk away. You will make more money working a temp office gig and the actual production experience will not teach you much about how real professional projects are done.

Good luck and stay out of jail.
 
To answer the original question– keep your eyes on the prize: $$$$$

Obviously for low-budget, walk. But I have on more than one occasion smelled a bad client, but stuck with it for promise of a nice payday. Once it was a drector for THE WORST MOVIE YOU WILL NEVER SEE. A big woman who knew nothing of production. For somereason thought she could direct a movie. She (seriously) had about the education level of middle schooler. Had hired a crappy photographer to use a GL1 to shoot scenes for a movie. Everything that you could think of that would be bad, was. Hardest 7 months EVER. After getting about a third of my pay, I walked. Stuck files on her hard drive and fedex'd it.

Still gives me the shivers. Would I do it again? Maybe. Things are always clearer in hindsight. I know that the pay I got from it enabled me to get my HVX and FS100 :)
 
Sounds like a miserable experience! :shocked:

I'll commiserate with ya...

...when I was 24 I was hired to direct a Mexican straight-to-video feature. We had plenty of money, major stars from Mexico City and accidentally secured distribution through CineMex, the nation's largest chain of multiplexes.

I spent months writing the script. My wife and I prepped every detail. And instead of making a movie...

1.) The executive producer chooses locations based on which Atlanta establishments are willing to pay HIM. That's right. We're shooting a movie, only it turns out we're in a play for the location's customers. I'm trying to shoot a scene at a restaurant and people are being seated at the booth next to the actors so they can get a closer look while they eat. While shooting in a large dancehall with real Mariache bands I begin a 20 foot crane shot. The executive producer says the audience thinks I look cool in the crane and leaves me up in the air for over an hour.

2.) When we move to Guadalajara we hire a friend of the Executive Producer as our casting director. The actors she brings in to read for the various roles all seem scantily clad and overly erotic...I assume this is a part of Guadalajaran culture until I discover the casting director is actually a local porn star and the actors auditioning are her various coworkers.

3.) The Executive Producer wants his face on the poster. Why? HE PRODUCED THE MOVIE! WHY CAN'T HE HAVE HIS FACE NEXT TO THE OTHER ACTORS? :love4:

4.) One of the actors, a very famous Mexican star, insists he cannot perform unless he is drunk...so, before each take he drinks...lots...and passes out.

5.) To increase the size of our budget the Executive Producer decides to invest in an Georgia rodeo. The rodeo goes bankrupt in less than two weeks...and half our budget evaporates!

Do not yell at your client. Don't hit them either. Simply walk away as politely as you can. Believe in yourself enough to realize this cannot be your big break. Apocalypse Now is the exception to the rule...great films are not born from chaos.
 
I say you should have asked more questions up front. If there was a miscommunication, it is equally your fault for not getting all the details. How much will I be paid and when? Location? Is there reliable power? Any hazards I should be aware of? What lighting is there, and what will be needed? What crew do you have? How many hours or days will this be? Am I a camera op, director, editor, or what? How much will I be paid and when? (Never hurts to double check ;)

If possible, you should also check the location before the shoot, just to see what you will be up against.
 
These people aren't taking the project -- or you -- seriously. If the main star is dense enough to commit to something else on the day of the shoot then it's his way of saying you don't count. It's rude. It's disrespectful no matter what your status is in terms of professional experience. No one should treat others that way.

In that case, the project isn't worth your time or consideration, either.

Recently someone was interested in hiring me to work on a project. This person had only a vague idea of what he wanted but it never got past that. With absolutely horrendous writing skills, he couldn't even write up a clear description of what he wanted.

I politely told him he needed to hire someone to come up with a script or at least a good outline. And I gave him good examples of how these things are structured. Hadn't heard back from him. He probably went elsewhere to get his project done and that's OK.

I don't have the time or energy to waste on such nonsense. I'd rather invest my efforts in projects where everyone is pulling in the same direction and are mutually supportive.

Inexperienced enthusiasts often look at music videos and films and think it's shot and assembled in real time. They don't realize how much effort it takes to make something look or sound a certain way. And they have no idea that all the wonderful equipment on stands and cranes have a purpose.

The worst artists or producers don't have a clear idea of what they want. Or they're merely mimicking something else that they'd seen. They'll insist on elements or people based on personal preference without considering how it contributes or detracts from the intended production. And of course there's that ego thing.

If I were you I'd walk away. The money might not be worth the harm it could do to your reputation in the long run.
 
UPDATE ON THE SITUATION:

Okay, so after some conversations and attempts at salvaging this video, I finally just told him what I felt he needed to hear. I wasn't rude, but I told him about himself and his ways, and that if he wants to be successful in his field, that he needs to start learning priorities. He didn't take it to well, as I guess having a 22 tell an 28 year old to essentially grow up was insulting, but he still kept it calm.

But then he tried to use the excuses of "you know we're on a low budget", "I'm using my own money", "we got to work with what we got","the lord has put faith in you and this video" and just so much stuff, to which I replied that I have much faith in myself and even his career (he is a great singer), but sometimes I have to think about reality, and reality is that when I'm showing my work to others, they don't care that we didn't have a budget, or that I was a one man crew, or any of that. All they care about is the finished product. Plus, if I ever want to get my business running successfully, I need to start acting like one, and that includes being organized and structured.

So yeah, I don't know if we'll be working together on any future projects, but I feel much better telling him what needed to be heard. Thanks for listening to my rant guys. ;)
 
If this has been already said then I apologize but you should have had an initial meeting with the group well in advance. You should have taken notes as to what they wanted and what you could add to the project ideas, effects, locations etc. Closer to the shoot date you should have had a Pre Production meeting to go over everything. A DETAILED CONTRACT needed to be drawn up and signed by all involved as well. If you are like me and want to be paid a percentage up front, now is a good time to collect the first payment. Do the shoot, Do the editing...do NOT give them the master or any tapes until you receive the balance they owe you IF you go this route. Some people want the whole amount of the shoot up front.

Just a FYI, I am sure it was a misunderstanding but you can shoot a concert performance and make it into a Music Video. You just need lots of cutaways to drop in.
 
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