How do you get good audio with a DSLR?

Amadou

Amadou

Carbonite Member
I'm used to plugging my shotgun microphone into the EX1. Now I have a Canon 7D and want audio at least as good.

If I'm going to use externat microphones, say a 416, will I get better audio by recording XLR sound throught the preamps of:

Tascam D40

or

Zoom H4

or should I use another recorder?

Sound quality wise, how do these compare to the built in pre-am of an EX1 Camera?​
 
The simple answer to the question in the subject line is: You get good audio by not using the DSLR.

Assumption: By "Tascam D-40" you really mean "Tascam DR-40" portable digital audio recorder.

1) If you want audio as good as the EX1, then don't even bother trying to record audio on the DSLR (except as a reference "scratch" track).
2) The mic preamps in Tascam DR40, or Zoom H4 or anything else with XLR connectors is practically guaranteed to be better than the "mic preamps" in the DSLR.
3) Not sure what "recording XLR sound through the preamps" means? Does that mean actually recording on the D40 or on the H4, or does that mean simply using the D40 or the H4 as preamps only and expecting to actually record on the DSLR? Either the D40 or the H4 are better audio recorders than any DSLR.
4) Not sure what "use another recorder" means? Does that mean the DR40 or the H4, or does it mean yet some other recorder to be named later?
5) The XLR preamps in a Tascam DR40 or H4 are much more like the EX1. And not even in the same league as any DSLR camera, even with XLR preamp/adapters on the input.

If you have a DR40 or H4 available, I would never seriously consider recording sound on a DSLR. Not even close. The "audio" sections of DSLRs are not designed for serious audio recording. They are simply there as a convenience if you have NOTHING else. They are quite possibly not even up to the very low standards of consumer video camcorder mic inputs.

The main problem with DSLR audio inputs are:
1) They are low-quality (i.e. noisy)
2) They are unbalanced (i.e. they are incapable of rejecting ambient electromagnetic noise pickup from the mic cable)
3) You usually cannot turn off the "auto-level" feature. This is a killer of quality audio
4) You usually cannot control the recording level even if you could turn off the auto-level.
5) You usually can't monitor the audio level even if you could turn off the ALC and control it.

Any one of these would be a show-stopper of quality audio recording, and when you pile up two or more of them, it just makes it not worth serious consideration. At least IMHO.

By contrast, the audio section of an EX1 (or a DR40 or an H4)...
1) have preamps that are are designed and constructed to be quieter.
2) Have balanced inputs (to further reduce induced noise).
3) Have switches to control whether you want automatic or manual record level controls.
4) Have proper adjustments for record level.
5) Have both metering and headphone monitoring to ensuring that you know what you are recording.
 
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I know all that. The question is: How does the Tascam DR40 preamp compare to the EX1 preamp.
 
I think Richard was suggesting that you use the Tascam or Zoom as a primary recorder, and not as a preamp. By all means feed an input to the camera as a reference or use a slate to sync. But your production audio will be recorded seperately, not in camera. Think of it as more like shooting film, right?

As for the comparison you're looking for, I don't have direct EX1 experience, but the Zoom H4N is excellent, especially given the price. I would expect it to be at least on a par with the EX1, if not better, as it is a dedicated recorder.
 
Amadou said:
I know all that. The question is: How does the Tascam DR40 preamp compare to the EX1 preamp.
Click to expand...

If I had a choice between shooting video and recording audio on my EX1 vs. shooting video on a DSLR and recording audio on a DR40, I would choose the EX1 simply for convenience. But that did not appear to be the question you are asking. Your subject line says that you are shooting video on a DSLR.

BOTH the EX1 and the DR40 (and the H4) mic preamps are SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER than ANY mic preamp in ANY DSLR. It isn't even close.

I will admit that I don't understand the motivation for your question about DR40 vs. EX1? The EX1 preamps might be better than the DR40, or vice-versa. I wouldn't bet any significant money on it either way. But there is absolutely no question in the universe that they are both significantly better than the mic preamp in any DSLR.
 
I just got the zoom H4n today, it's like night and day compared to the mic on the 7d. The only reason to use the pickup on the SLR camera is because you want to hear a lot of static and noise from your hand.
 
phastphoto said:
I just got the zoom H4n today, it's like night and day compared to the mic on the 7d. The only reason to use the pickup on the SLR camera is because you want to hear a lot of static and noise from your hand.
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Thank you for your observations, but please note that devices like the Zoom H4n are recommended as RECORDERS with proper external mics, not for the quality of their built-in microphones (which are likely jelly-bean capsules that cost less than 99 cents each).
And also note that nobody is suggesting using the on-board microphones on a DSLR. For exactly the reasons you observe (plus many more). But even with a external mic plugged into a DSLR, the "mic preamp" is a 72-cent collection of parts in the most basic circuit they could get away with.
 
I am a newbie of audio..but I am very satisfied with my h4n and at875 combo..it is consider cheap solution for dslr audio..but I am satisified..
my personal take on audio for newbie is do not think too much about what the difference between each device, especially at same price range..if h4n is better than dr-100..or if ntg-2 is better than at875 and so on...if ur comparsion is between h4n and a thounsand recorder..I am sure there will be a lot difference..but that is not what OP compare anyway..

the biggest thing either of these thing can provide to us is the ability that we can record sound of-camera..that is the biggest thing..
u will be surprised how much ur sound quality improved just by take the mic off-camera and get close to the person..the more ur mic get close to ur person..the better ur sound is..
so just buy what u can afford..and practice how to operation mic off-camera..
 
I have RODE video mic mounted on top. But that's just for some quick run around interviewing guests at weddings. Then I mounted a zoom H2 on top of loud speakers or positioned near them to get cleaner sound. It's good to have that master audio track too for sync in Plural Eyes.
 
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Terry_Lasater said:
Somewhat off topic, but did you put video with copyrighted music on Vimeo?
Click to expand...

That's a hot topic right now, a lawsuit just settled and more pending. They are cracking down on wedding videographers for copyright infringement. Now that everybody posts their wedding video online, the fact that rampant violations that have been going one is exposed.
 
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