How do you find a DP - with special requirements?

O

OldCorpse

Rockin the Boat
I'm thinking of shooting a no-budget feature in B&W, and I'd love to imitate the lighting style of old B&W Japanese Samurai movies (ex: "Sanjuro" by Kurosawa/Koizumi/Saito).

How do I find a DP who can deliver that? Alternatively, someone who can deliver something in the style of 40's film noir (ex: "Out Of The Past" by Tourneour/Musuraca).

Obviously I can't afford to hire a top flight DP who is used to working on big Hollywood productions. My choices are going to be limited to looking through tons of DP reels.

The issue is that such reels do not ordinarily feature B&W work in the styles I'm interested in (if there is any B&W work to begin with). How do I find such a DP? I could just find a conventional reel I really like and then sit down and ask the DP if he can do what I need, but that's kind of weird - "hey do you think you can do it?" because it's not like I can ask him to demonstrate to me on the spot, so what, I'm taking him/her at his/her word? I don't know what they teach in film school these days, so how do I even know if the small-time or beginner DPs (only ones I'll be able to afford) were even introduced to say, hard lighting in B&W and how to shoot for specific looks associated with an era or film.

Obviously, if I'm completely thwarted, I'll have no choice but to DP myself, but I'm not insane enough to think I'd know what I'm doing... my only experience lighting is for stills in B&W and a couple of short films... but seriously, I'm barely out of the 'three-point' lighting noob stage (and yes, I've studied Barry's DVD and read some cinematography books)... but I AM NOT A DP - if I have to do it myself, it would be out of pure desperation (and sure to be a huge fail trying to imitate Sanjuro style etc.). Bottom line, I really cannot and should not be doing it myself.

How do I approach this?
 
When you put out the word that you are looking for a DP for your project, describe it as best you can, like you did above. As you review the reels, I would look for the ones that show the best command of lighting varied subjects and put them in a kind of priority list of the best ones. Then contact them and see which ones either have the experience for something like the project you describe, or that "Click" to your idea and are willing to do testing to see if they can give you what you want.
 
A look is a look. Any DP that understands lighting should be able to replicate a style. The principles of light are the same no matter what the genre is.
 
Gillvane said:
Shoot color.
Click to expand...

Well, I figured that I might shoot in color and do B&W in post. But that doesn't really address the issue, because there is a lot more to the style of those 40's and 60's B&W movies than just color and composition - there is the lighting. Now, paradoxically I might have some advantages in shooting for B&W in that I don't have to concern myself with temperature as much and it's easier to match lights - at least along certain axis - but nonetheless there is the lighting style. So just saying "shoot color" doesn't really address my quandary. I like the look of Sanjuro (as well as the different look of Out Of The Past), and there's more to it than bringing color to B&W in post.
 
My suggestion would be that if they do not have any B&W work in their reels, to pay attention to factors other than color. See how they handle shadows, contrast, framing, etc. Unfortunately so many DP reels are filled with shaky handheld footage now that it might be difficult to truly get an idea of their ability to do what you want. But ultimately any DP that really knows how to light can probably get close to what you want.

Biggest suggestion would be to do a test. When you find a DP you like, get them and a few actors to go out one day and run a quick interior and an exterior test, put all the footage through post processing, and see if you end up close to what you want.
 
bgundu said:
A look is a look. Any DP that understands lighting should be able to replicate a style. The principles of light are the same no matter what the genre is.
Click to expand...

I really, really, really hope you are right that "any" DP should be able to replicate a style. Seriously, I'm not being snarky. The reason I was worried, is because I watched and read a bunch of interviews with Kurosawa's DPs and it struck me that they were doing a lot of complicated stuff... of course, a lot of it was due to the primitive equipment of those days, but not all of it. That got me worried about a young DP pulling it off. But I hope you're right, and I'm worried unnecessarily - maybe I should quit reading American Cinematographer, cause all that reading just causes me more worries :)
 
OldCorpse said:
I really, really, really hope you are right that "any" DP should be able to replicate a style. Seriously, I'm not being snarky. The reason I was worried, is because I watched and read a bunch of interviews with Kurosawa's DPs and it struck me that they were doing a lot of complicated stuff... of course, a lot of it was due to the primitive equipment of those days, but not all of it. That got me worried about a young DP pulling it off. But I hope you're right, and I'm worried unnecessarily - maybe I should quit reading American Cinematographer, cause all that reading just causes me more worries :)
Click to expand...

"...quit reading American Cinematographer"!!! ... Oh hell no!!...

This is a conversation that you have to have with the DPs that you are considering for your project. When you find the one that gets excited about shooting B&W and can articulate their understanding of the B&W aesthetic, with specific examples of B&W films that they love and have studied... Hire them!
 
I'm not saying get a rookie either. A seasoned DP can look at a reference photo and pretty much understand the motivation of the light. My suggestion is also not to do a literal copy of what Kurosawa has accomplished. They were different times, film cameras, different budgets, different lights. So, for you to make a film that looks and feels like a Kurosawa film is a tall order. By all means study the lighting in his films and then work with a DP to make it your own. Also, lighting for Color is different that lighting for B+W. Understanding color theory will go along way to getting nice tonality and contrast. Just my 2 Cents. Good luck with the project!

OldCorpse said:
I really, really, really hope you are right that "any" DP should be able to replicate a style. Seriously, I'm not being snarky. The reason I was worried, is because I watched and read a bunch of interviews with Kurosawa's DPs and it struck me that they were doing a lot of complicated stuff... of course, a lot of it was due to the primitive equipment of those days, but not all of it. That got me worried about a young DP pulling it off. But I hope you're right, and I'm worried unnecessarily - maybe I should quit reading American Cinematographer, cause all that reading just causes me more worries :)
Click to expand...
 
OldCorpse said:
I really, really, really hope you are right that "any" DP should be able to replicate a style. Seriously, I'm not being snarky. The reason I was worried, is because I watched and read a bunch of interviews with Kurosawa's DPs and it struck me that they were doing a lot of complicated stuff... of course, a lot of it was due to the primitive equipment of those days, but not all of it. That got me worried about a young DP pulling it off. But I hope you're right, and I'm worried unnecessarily - maybe I should quit reading American Cinematographer, cause all that reading just causes me more worries :)
Click to expand...


You're going to run into issues with a young DP no matter what, just as issues arise with young Director's, or young makeup artists. Experience is a really wonderful thing to have on set. Experience is also expensive. Unless you can afford to hire a talented, experienced DP, you're gonna have to go with what's available to you. Try to find someone you get along with, that has talent and potential. If they are driven enough, they will do the research and testing needed to get you as close to your goal as they can at this point in their careers.
 
bgundu said:
Great article here:
http://www.dvinfo.net/article/acquisition/my-first-lighting-class-or-how-i-learned-to-light.html
Click to expand...

Funny, I had already read that article :); in general, I do a lot of reading about cinematography in preparation, and the more I read, the more I worry about finding a DP who has a grasp of all the issues - given that I can't afford top level guys. My only hope is that living in Los Angeles, there should be many young aspiring DPs and there's a decent level of talent, especially from places like Poland who got training in old skool cinematography, all come to Hollywood trying to make it. Anyhow, thank you for all the advice - it's going to be an adventure...
 
OldCorpse said:
Well, I figured that I might shoot in color and do B&W in post. But that doesn't really address the issue, because there is a lot more to the style of those 40's and 60's B&W movies than just color and composition - there is the lighting. Now, paradoxically I might have some advantages in shooting for B&W in that I don't have to concern myself with temperature as much and it's easier to match lights - at least along certain axis - but nonetheless there is the lighting style. So just saying "shoot color" doesn't really address my quandary. I like the look of Sanjuro (as well as the different look of Out Of The Past), and there's more to it than bringing color to B&W in post.
Click to expand...

No... 'shooting color' and then 'just with a few knob twist... turn it into 'B&W'' will not work... ok... maybe because few people these days know what a B&W print looks like (either still or moving pictures...) 'shoot color and desaturate is enough'... read that as sarcasm...

Here's the test... if the DP you are interviewing knows what a Wratten 90 filter is, and how it was used in the past... you may be on to a DP who 'thinks B&W', or at least understands B&W enough to get a reasonable image...

As for 'shooting'... these days... of course shoot 'color'... no reason to burn in some camera engineer's idea of what 'B&W' may be... however, set lighting, set and costume 'color' needs to be addressed in how it is transformed into 'B&W'...
 
OldCorpse said:
Funny, I had already read that article :); in general, I do a lot of reading about cinematography in preparation, and the more I read, the more I worry about finding a DP who has a grasp of all the issues - given that I can't afford top level guys. My only hope is that living in Los Angeles, there should be many young aspiring DPs and there's a decent level of talent, especially from places like Poland who got training in old skool cinematography, all come to Hollywood trying to make it. Anyhow, thank you for all the advice - it's going to be an adventure...
Click to expand...

Not that I've actually put out an ad... but at the various events that I've attended, the 'young shooter', seems to be more enamored with '3.00:1' aspect ratios, F/1 shallow DoF, and 'mucking up color' with some large set of 'bizarre' color schemes (including quazi-B&W that looks ugly...), than trying to emulate classic Hollywood or Noir B&W. In the latter case apparently just making the shot 'high contrast' is good enough...).
 
This sounds like the kind of challenge I would be interested in. I'm located in North Carolina but willing to travel for the right job. Need to update this reel but there are some B&W shots on it: https://vimeo.com/29404381

Speaking of B&W...watched "The Man Who Wasn't There" again recently, lensed by the master himself Roger Deakins. Simply amazing.
 
OldCorpse said:
I'm thinking of shooting a no-budget feature in B&W, and I'd love to imitate the lighting style of old B&W Japanese Samurai movies (ex: "Sanjuro" by Kurosawa/Koizumi/Saito).

How do I find a DP who can deliver that? Alternatively, someone who can deliver something in the style of 40's film noir (ex: "Out Of The Past" by Tourneour/Musuraca).

Obviously I can't afford to hire a top flight DP who is used to working on big Hollywood productions. My choices are going to be limited to looking through tons of DP reels.

The issue is that such reels do not ordinarily feature B&W work in the styles I'm interested in (if there is any B&W work to begin with). How do I find such a DP? I could just find a conventional reel I really like and then sit down and ask the DP if he can do what I need, but that's kind of weird - "hey do you think you can do it?" because it's not like I can ask him to demonstrate to me on the spot, so what, I'm taking him/her at his/her word? I don't know what they teach in film school these days, so how do I even know if the small-time or beginner DPs (only ones I'll be able to afford) were even introduced to say, hard lighting in B&W and how to shoot for specific looks associated with an era or film.

Obviously, if I'm completely thwarted, I'll have no choice but to DP myself, but I'm not insane enough to think I'd know what I'm doing... my only experience lighting is for stills in B&W and a couple of short films... but seriously, I'm barely out of the 'three-point' lighting noob stage (and yes, I've studied Barry's DVD and read some cinematography books)... but I AM NOT A DP - if I have to do it myself, it would be out of pure desperation (and sure to be a huge fail trying to imitate Sanjuro style etc.). Bottom line, I really cannot and should not be doing it myself.

How do I approach this?
Click to expand...

Hire me... :)

www.[URL="http://www.ryanpatrickohara.com/download/blackwhiteI.pdf"]ryanpatrickohara[/URL].com/download/blackwhiteI.pdf

www.[URL="http://www.ryanpatrickohara.com/download/blackandwhitep2.pdf"]ryanpatrickohara[/URL].com/download/blackandwhitep2.pdf
 
Id comment that a 'proper' DP can work in the style they are briefed to work - on that basis you want a competent reel rather than a reel with B+W work

Id also comment, without having researched too much, that properly getting the looks created on older slow filmstock involves LOTS of light and is not in a typical indy budget

S
 
Hey guys, I'm serious, I will keep folks on this board in mind :). Right now, I'm trying to anticipate all problems as I'm building up my budget, which is an interesting exercise... every time I think "OK, this is the budget!" I find some new expense and need to grow it again, lol.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top