How do YOU deal with the hard drive hand-off?

Randy09660

Thanks for your comment, and comparisons with the building trade are very apt.

Can you imagine a builder who's agreed to build an extension for 25 grand coming back at the end of the job and saying "Hey, good news, we managed to do the job for 20 so here's 5K back"?

It ain't gonna happen. And if it does the builder will not last long because the next job he's billed 25K for could end up costing him 30 and he's out of business. Some jobs you make money on and some can go pear-shaped,and you need to factor that in when pricing jobs. I've got a job on at the moment which is a real PITA, and in retrospect i've gone in too cheap, but that's life. In times like these you want to stay busy by keeping prices down, but sometimes you get stung.

I think my original post was misinterpreted which is why i got some lousy remarks about dishonesty. When it comes to straight cutting jobs i always bill for the exact hours, but flaky clients often bump up their costs because of indecision about the final product they're after. :Drogar-Kriz(DBG):
 
This thread is slowly getting off topic here so I will try and re-route it by contributing my experience and suggestions. I do own an HMC150 and have had to deal with the same "hand-off" issue as everyone else that shoots tapeless.

Essentially there are three different scenarios to consider. The first is a client who needs you to shoot and edit, in which case it shouldn't matter that you are shooting tapeless, or to what format, because you are doing the editing and should have the necessary software to handle the footage.

The second scenario is a client who hires you for a "shoot-only" gig and needs the footage at the conclusion of the shoot, in which case, renting a camera that shoots to tape and factoring that into the cost of your services would be your best choice. In the end you will bill them for your time as an operator and for the cost of the rental. They end up with an invoice that is probably pretty close to what you would've charged them for your time and your gear. Only difference is you are not making any money from using your camera, but guess what? You're not using your camera, so there is no acquisition expense of the camera, or wear and tear to factor in. It's a wash. I have had many clients request this because they want the video I shoot to be from the same camera as previously recorded footage.

The third scenario is a client who just needs the footage sent to them, as is the case with most of the clients I deal with. If that is the situation, they most likely are either editing the footage themselves, or have an edit house to do it for them. Either way, if they are continuing to do business in today's day and age they probably have the capabilities to transcode, or natively edit AVCHD. I usually copy the contents of my SD card to a DVD(s) and send that off to the client, or edit house.

If it turns out the client cannot handle the AVCHD footage, then I recommend using something like Canopus ProCoder 3.0 to do a batch conversion of all the AVCHD footage to a format and codec they can edit, or have requested. Do I charge extra for this? Not always. Often is the case when a client will approach me and offer me work that I can either accept, or decline. It is up to me to make that decision. They usually hire me at a specific rate and I am fine with that, even knowing that I may have to spend a little extra time on some video conversions for them, but hey, those are the breaks. I chose the HMC150, not them, so I am stuck with adapting to other peoples limitations, or workflows (if they exist), until AVCHD is more of an industry standard.

It has not been very common for me in my last 10 years of professional experience as a Videographer/Editor for a client to ask for a quote for a shoot only. More than likely they are looking for the entire package. If they do, I find out from them ahead of time what their camera requirements are, if any, and either rent that specific camera, or factor in the time needed to transcode the AVCHD footage from my HMC150 to their requested format/codec.

As far as billing is concerned, I will keep this short as to not drift off topic again, but most of the clients I work with ask for a half day and full day rate when it comes to shoots. That includes me and my gear. If I work less than the 5 hour half day, or 10 hour full day, I don't refund them the difference, because that would be assuming we are all working on an hourly basis. The clients never ask for this either because they understand that this is the way the industry works. The rates are based on your time, and whether or not you would be able to get another job that day. Usually half day rates for shoots are more costly than a full 10 hour day rate. Any and everyone I know in this industry who shoots professionally has a half day and full day rate. If someone approaches me with a project that includes shooting and editing, I will determine how many hours it will take to complete the production of the project through speaking with the client and using my own experience and then quote them my half, or full day rate for each day required during production. Post production is billed to the client based on the total number of hours spent on editing and only at the conclusion and delivery of the project.
 
OK, I do own an HMC 150, I shoot for a living and this is what I have been doing for one of my major clients who is producing an HD TV special for world wide distribution.
I shoot on 16 gig( Panasonic and Transcend Class 6) cards. I had this client buy a 320 gig 7200 rpm USB 2 drive. I also have one the same and a WD Mirror 1TB raid that travels with me. I have the WD AVCHD media player and a Manhattan Monitor.
We shoot and at the end of the day I set up his drive, my drive and the WD backup drive and drag and drop all the daily shoot files. I do this with my MacBook Pro 17. If I have shot more than 16 gigs ....I do the same thing again usually after dinner.
We sometimes do spot checks of scenes using one of the drives or the sd card and the WD player with the Manhattan.
I provide my client on this and all projects with original files transfered to ProRez and in the original AVCHD format on their drive.
I just got a NEXTO 2700 and can't wait to put it to work on the next shoot. Making backups quickly wil be awesome.
Fact is at sixty bucks for an 16 gig SD card and the amount you can record is Chicken Sh_t in the broadcast world. I would be happy to give the client copies or originals on SD if they want them for cost of the SD.
I am thrilled with my HMC 150 and the codec and though my way is not ideal, it is fair and honest and I hope that a quicker or more efficient method comes along.
Many of my clients are also in the FORMAT TRANSITION and many have expressed that they are somewhat overwhelmed with the number of formats and media out there and that is totally understandable.
Oh Yes! Billing as mentioned b y my learned colleague above. I bill my clients for my time shooting and not for the transfer process. For those clients who I do some post for it works out in the end for those who I don't do post for .....well it is just easier to send them to the post house with ProRes than have them go through a discussion with an armchair expert in the post house on the ups and downs of AVCHD. Send 'em in with great images and sound and they will always come back.
Cheers
Brian
 
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I'm still just trying to get paid. :p

This thread is extremely valuable, and I believe should be compiled/formatted/stickied. It helps people realize that after all this is business. This sh*ts real.
 
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