How did you learn how to light
- Thread starter Victor Nhat Nguyen
- Start date
Paul Hudson
Vacuum Tube Member
Practice, practice, practice! The practice some more!
nycineaste
Well-known member
people always say 3 point lighting but its really 4 point lighting ------- key-fill-back-background------- its a surprisingly adaptable way of thinking; sometimes you'll omit fill, light the background instead of backlighting the talent, etc.
drapeama
Well-known member
As some valuable users already stated, without practice you won't learn.
I've checked a couple of online tutorials, started with that basic 3 point lighting and experimented from there. Sometimes less than this works as well, depends on what "look" you're after. Don't fear to be creative on set.
I've checked a couple of online tutorials, started with that basic 3 point lighting and experimented from there. Sometimes less than this works as well, depends on what "look" you're after. Don't fear to be creative on set.
Paul Hudson
Vacuum Tube Member
After you learn 3 point lighting forget it. While it is good for interviews it is boring and flat for narrative.
David G. Smith
Steak Knife Member
Thank you Paul. I guess everyone should learn basic 3 point lighting cause sooner or latter you are going to do some talking heads work. Outside of that, I don't see the use for 3 point lighting. I approach shooting narrative really as "Two Point" lighting. With that the two points are "Portraiture" and "Everything Else". I think that in most shots in a narrative the eye should be directed to the characters we are following and that direction is done with the "Portraiture" lighting, the space the characters are inhabiting is "Everything Else". Lighting this in service of the story rarely can be done with just 3 lights.
As to the question as to how I learned to light. My approach to lighting has been really shaped by doing project after project that were too ambitious for the budgets we had. Doing that really forced me to learn to make the best of limited resources. I then worked with a couple of very cool gaffers that taught me how it is supposed to be done. I still work on projects that are too ambitious for their budgets but I have much more confidence about what is really possible on a low budget.
I really suggest study and there are a some great books out there. I also recommend getting a subscription to American Cinematographer and reading it from cover to cover every month. I have been doing that for longer than I care to say.
Liam Hall
Veteran
You better tell that to 95% of the DoPs in LA then...
I wouldn't say "forget it." Obviously, the basic interview setup is pretty boring, but once you understand what those three lights do and how to manipulate them, it opens you up for understanding how to get the non-boring looks you want.
danjenkins
Active member
Yes! As a wise man once told me, first learn the rules, then learn how to break them.
I'm just starting out, been at it for only a few months, so take this for what it's worth. I read books, I watched videos (including Barry & David's!), read some more, watched films with a view to lighting, read some more. But then I took the plunge.
What follows, is the method I have learned the most from, to date.
I write mini scenes, that last like 10 seconds to a minute or so, with a mood. So now I know what I want to accomplish - f.ex. "a murderer walks into a room, sits on a couch and waits for his victim". So I understand the mood and what it needs. Unfortunately, for acting I have only myself, my wife, and a mannequin, so 99% of the time it's one person on screen (mostly me). And I only have a few locations. Set up the cam on a tripod and light. Here's the key to what I find most instructive: after lighting something, try to REMOVE light and see how little / few lights you can get away with and still accomplish your goal and mood for the scene. I'm getting better at it - in the beginning, I used a million lights - now immediately start with a lot fewer; then the challenge is to see if I can remove one more light, which frequently involves completely re-thinking the lighting scheme. I love it, and spend way too much time doing it. It's also made me look at films with different eyes.
Anyhow, I thought it might be interesting to see it from the perspective of someone just starting out - though I have no ambition of becoming a DP (and it's way too late for me anyhow), just wanted to learn enough to light my own projects.
What follows, is the method I have learned the most from, to date.
I write mini scenes, that last like 10 seconds to a minute or so, with a mood. So now I know what I want to accomplish - f.ex. "a murderer walks into a room, sits on a couch and waits for his victim". So I understand the mood and what it needs. Unfortunately, for acting I have only myself, my wife, and a mannequin, so 99% of the time it's one person on screen (mostly me). And I only have a few locations. Set up the cam on a tripod and light. Here's the key to what I find most instructive: after lighting something, try to REMOVE light and see how little / few lights you can get away with and still accomplish your goal and mood for the scene. I'm getting better at it - in the beginning, I used a million lights - now immediately start with a lot fewer; then the challenge is to see if I can remove one more light, which frequently involves completely re-thinking the lighting scheme. I love it, and spend way too much time doing it. It's also made me look at films with different eyes.
Anyhow, I thought it might be interesting to see it from the perspective of someone just starting out - though I have no ambition of becoming a DP (and it's way too late for me anyhow), just wanted to learn enough to light my own projects.
I am still learning lighting. Things I found that have helped include the tutorial that Barry Green and David Jimerson produced on lighting, as well as a number of tips and such from Lowel and a few other websites. I also started to do more still photography and use a good light meter. Still photography makes me stop and think about the lighting and the effect on the image a bit more. Each little bit of info and practice comes in handy. By studying some of the basics first, it will save you money in your experimentation. Also get a camera with decent zebra capability and a waveform monitor. While it may not make you set up your lights in the best location, at least you have some guides that will keep you from blowing things out, or causing so much digital noise with poor lighting, you may get by. I have learned a ton of stuff from the folks on this forum as well.
maranfilms
Veteran
great advice, as was Ryan's, I love lighting, I think there's so many incredible tools now for such little money, it's easy to put together a cheap versatile kit for most all situations.
HorseFilms
Look ma no hands
I shot things that were really bad looking. Then I shot some more things that were equally bad looking. After awhile, I started looking at screen shots from movies I really liked the look of and tried to recreate just that one shot. That taught me a lot. You can take it from there and you'll find that you start to get it.
David G. Smith
Steak Knife Member
Man, you need to put in the time on a couple of long form, low budget fictional narrative films, any way you can. IMO, there is nothing that will teach a person to light better than having to tell a story with a limited budget and the lights you have. Shooting tests in your backyard with family won't teach you half as much as having to shoot ten script pages a day with no money and really try to make a decent film. There is a lot of grand talk about the Great Art of Cinematography and the dissection of the perfect technique to achieve a specific look. I think that one of the most important skills needed to shoot a low budget film is creative compromise. Sometimes the tasks is, "Sh*t... we got 20 minutes here and we need to shoot these 3 pages..." and you need to light it quick. Burn the basics into you head, know your camera, swallow hard and dive in!
Heh, David, I bet you're right! But baby steps for me. First I want to get the basics down, so that I'm thinking about locations and scenes in terms of lighting, and learning a few techniques before taking the plunge. Down the road - absolutely, there is no substitute - if you want to learn to light a feature, you gotta light a feature. For me at this moment it's simply learning the vocabulary, so that when the time comes when I'm under time pressure, I don't have to spend time thinking about basics as those should be second nature. Then again, I have no hope of being a DP, because that's a life-long quest of an artform with infinite depth - I just want to be able to do everything on my own so I'm not utterly dependent on others. It's more along the lines of Barry's 80/20 rule. Learn most stuff around film to 80%, and concentrate on what you want to do (directing for me) for that last 20% (if you've got it in you!). The one redeeming thing for me, is that I love photography and light and love experimenting, so it's not exactly a chore - if anything, I have to control myself not to devote too much time to it, because that's not my ultimate career goal... it's just so seductive 
LightBender
New member
Look around, light everywhere, bouncy bouncy. It's chaotic and beautiful. It can be hard and soft, delicate and strong. I love light. :2vrolijk_08:
I Read some books, got onto some sets, started off small. My first kit was some garage flood lights, (and god damn it if I wasn't proud of those back when I had them ). Eventually made it onto a decent size set, got under some great DP and Gaffs, learn't more about lighting then I ever thought possible. Learn't to feel it and most importantly see it. Having someone scream at you to cut down some spill, and you're sure you've got it all... And then you just see the minutest bit of a streak, and next time you spot it straight away.
Learn't the output of lamps by setting them up and flicking them on, hands on experience cannot be beaten. Illumanance, Reflectance, Brightness. It's all sexy to me.
I Read some books, got onto some sets, started off small. My first kit was some garage flood lights, (and god damn it if I wasn't proud of those back when I had them
). Eventually made it onto a decent size set, got under some great DP and Gaffs, learn't more about lighting then I ever thought possible. Learn't to feel it and most importantly see it. Having someone scream at you to cut down some spill, and you're sure you've got it all... And then you just see the minutest bit of a streak, and next time you spot it straight away. Learn't the output of lamps by setting them up and flicking them on, hands on experience cannot be beaten. Illumanance, Reflectance, Brightness. It's all sexy to me.
Samuel H
Major Contributor
Heh, David, I bet you're right! But baby steps for me. First I want to get the basics down, so that I'm thinking about locations and scenes in terms of lighting, and learning a few techniques before taking the plunge. Down the road - absolutely, there is no substitute - if you want to learn to light a feature, you gotta light a feature. For me at this moment it's simply learning the vocabulary, so that when the time comes when I'm under time pressure, I don't have to spend time thinking about basics as those should be second nature. Then again, I have no hope of being a DP, because that's a life-long quest of an artform with infinite depth - I just want to be able to do everything on my own so I'm not utterly dependent on others. It's more along the lines of Barry's 80/20 rule. Learn most stuff around film to 80%, and concentrate on what you want to do (directing for me) for that last 20% (if you've got it in you!). The one redeeming thing for me, is that I love photography and light and love experimenting, so it's not exactly a chore - if anything, I have to control myself not to devote too much time to it, because that's not my ultimate career goal... it's just so seductive
If it conforts you, I thought your idea for the "great, but now let's see how many lights I can take away without killing the shot" exercise was great. And if you're actually doing these exercises routinely, you're practicing a lot more than most people in online forums (yes, that includes me).
David G. Smith
Steak Knife Member
Heh, David, I bet you're right! But baby steps for me. First I want to get the basics down, so that I'm thinking about locations and scenes in terms of lighting, and learning a few techniques before taking the plunge. Down the road - absolutely, there is no substitute - if you want to learn to light a feature, you gotta light a feature. For me at this moment it's simply learning the vocabulary, so that when the time comes when I'm under time pressure, I don't have to spend time thinking about basics as those should be second nature. Then again, I have no hope of being a DP, because that's a life-long quest of an artform with infinite depth - I just want to be able to do everything on my own so I'm not utterly dependent on others. It's more along the lines of Barry's 80/20 rule. Learn most stuff around film to 80%, and concentrate on what you want to do (directing for me) for that last 20% (if you've got it in you!). The one redeeming thing for me, is that I love photography and light and love experimenting, so it's not exactly a chore - if anything, I have to control myself not to devote too much time to it, because that's not my ultimate career goal... it's just so seductive
I understand. There are a few directors that also DP their own stuff, Robert Rodriguez, Steven Soderbergh and Peter Hyams come to mind, but I have tried that on low budget fictional narrative and it is very, very tough.
Since your focus is directing I reaffirm my advocacy that you should shoot some fictional narrative as soon as possible and use that as your learning tool. Shoot anything. Come up with a 5 page script and take it to completion. Even if it is just a generic "Slasher killer stalks victim through your house" or, if you are more into drama, "Conflicted boyfriend breaks up with his girlfriend over the breakfast table" scene. I swear OldCorpse, you will learn so much from doing that. I look forward to your posts describing the projects.