How confident are you to buy right out the gate?

S

scenedirector

Well-known member
I am just as excited as anyone else here when it comes to this amazing camera. But like 70% of the people here, the cost of this camera is going to be a lot.
We will ALL find a way to afford this camera and potentially the P2 cards so we can work with hi-def...

BUT, like any camera, ANY BRAND, how safe is it to buy when it first comes out to market?
NO ONE is perfect, and I'm sure there might be some "kinks" to work out when it comes. The DVX100 to 100a is a perfect example. You can go to other brands and types of cameras as well.

Even though I'm going to find funding to get my hands on one of these, I want to know when it is "safe" to buy this camera, when the "kinks" are worked out that won't pop up until AFTER production to market has occurred. 1, 3, 6 months after it is on the market?

When "is it safe?"
 
Never. Always. Depends on your point of view.

The DVX100 didn’t have “bugs” – there were improvements made based on feedback, but there were no “defects” to be corrected in the original 100. But even though Panasonic did one with the DVX, it doesn’t mean they will with the HVX. And even if they did, the time between announcement and issue was extremely short, so someone who felt “safe” at 9 months found out “differently” a few weeks later. And an update that soon is very rare.

So, you’re never “safe,” because a) you never know when an update will be announced/released, and b) there are always advances in technology and “better” equipment released by competitors.

But that also means you’re always “safe,” because you can’t stop the change. You know when you buy a camera that something better is coming, even if you don’t know when. As long as the camera you buy does what you want it to do, then your purchase is good. Or, there’s always someone looking to pick up an older model for a discounted price when a new one comes along, so you’ll have little trouble selling it.

And you can make money in the time in between.

So, it’s up to you . . . wait in anticipation of change or go out and shoot. You can rationalize either. I’d suggest the latter.
 
I think when you are dealing a totally new format there is a reason to wait and see if the format is safe and is going to be something you can work with professionally in the long run. HDV is a perfect example. Still no real conclusions on the longterm viability of that format.

The HVX is based mostly on tried and true technology. The P2 is new but based on technology that has been around awhile. One way or another video acquisition is going to move to non-linear. Could be optical, solid state, or magnetic. I truely believe solid state is the best choice and plan to "vote" with my purchase. Worst case scenerio if P2 is not embraced, the cards can be read by any laptop and moved to a different medium.

As far as the actual camera having issues, I am sure it will be imperfect in some ways and maybe Panasonic will release an "A" version in a year or so. During that year we will be using the camera and making money. I figure whatever the "improvements" are, they won't be worth the amount of money I will make during that year. If I wait another year Sony could have something non-HDV available but again more potential money lost. A year after that the HVX-300 should be out :)

If there are any MAJOR problems with the camera I have faith Pansonic would catch them before release or do a recall. If they didn't, groups like this would rise up and they would never sell a professional camera again.

You can slip a lot of junk past consumers but professionals buyers are generally much more aware of what is going on and talk with each other.

Good luck.
 
These kinds of posts are the ones that make me roll my eyes into the back of my skull. No offense direted towards you scenedirector as these types of threads are rampant upon the impending release if a potentially revolutionary camera.

But enough already.

The DVX100 to DVX100a is exactly as David stated; improvements were made on an already wonderful camera. There were no Defects. This isn't a Beta Release with Version "1a" soon to follow.

What are you going to do? Wiat 8 months for the HVX-A model? By then there'll be a whole new slew of cameras being announced and slated for release and this ridiculous banter will continue again.

Waiting for the camera isn't going to serve your production needs now; it's a tool. I don't know anything about the 70% statistic but your either in or your out. But one thing is for sure; this camera isn't going to make or break whatever it is you have in development. It isn't going to improve your technical skills, make your actors perform higher or even make the story work for the audience.

Now onto the next question:

What kind of Chamois will the HVX use?
 
wabbit said:
As far as the actual camera having issues, I am sure it will be imperfect in some ways and maybe Panasonic will release an "A" version in a year or so.
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No, I can’t agree. “Imperfect” is a loaded term. Will there be things it doesn’t have? Sure. But that doesn’t make it “imperfect” any more than any other camera, in the sense that it has defects. No camera is perfect, and there will always be improvements.

Just because Panasonic released the 100A after only one year doesn’t mean that it’s a design-cycle habit. There’s no reason to expect an HVX200A in that short of a period of time.


During that year we will be using the camera and making money. I figure whatever the "improvements" are, they won't be worth the amount of money I will make during that year.
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This I most definitely do agree with. If you always wait, you'll never buy, and you'll never produce. What's the point of that?
 
scenedirector:
always check the gate after changing mags and between takes.
you'll never get away from that.

JH:
Probably the same chamois as the DVX: the Blue Star Round-Small size.
Or, the Sony Betacam/Canon XL2 Oval shape. If none of these, surely Blue Star will make a
new eyecushion to fit the HVX just like they did when the PD150 came out.
I prefer the natural, nonsynthetic eyepiece chamois personally, but I'm sure both will be made.
 
thisiswells said:
JH:
Probably the same chamois as the DVX: the Blue Star Round-Small size.
Or, the Sony Betacam/Canon XL2 Oval shape. If none of these, surely Blue Star will make a
new eyecushion to fit the HVX just like they did when the PD150 came out.
I prefer the natural, nonsynthetic eyepiece chamois personally, but I'm sure both will be made.
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Oops; Sorry Wells. I was being sarcastic. :lipsrseal :undecided
 
speedbump said:
I am 'natural-male-enhancement' confident in the upcoming HVX...

:D
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:grin:
That's a lot of confidence...

With the exception of HDV, the doubts surrounding this camera should be greater than that of any other prosumer released in recent years, not just because it's a "new" camera working in "HD", but because of the P2. When people question this camera, they're really questioning the P2, and with good reason, P2's track record is well, sort of not there.
If P2 doesn't hold up, kind of like if the "natural male-enhancement" doesn't hold up, then there'll be alot of pissed off men...and women...and there'll be no money shot.
 
Just by the fact that Panasonic is holding back release of the HVX until later this year tells us that they are not going to leave anything to chance. This is a critical release and based on all that hangs in the balance, it should be just fine but we should always be prepared for the unexpected.

BTW: There were some unpublicized problems with some early shipments of the AGDVX100A. Several hundred pieces had to be hand inspected here in the states after arriving from Japan. What those problems exactly were, I never found out but they were apparently caught before being shipped out to dealers, unlike some other manufacturers who release product, deny the problem and then try to cover it up. And I'm not just speaking about video equipment.
 
P2 does have a track record with news organizations. DVCPro also has a very good track record as well. It just doesn't have a small indie film niche market track record yet. With everything we've seen and read P2 seems pretty straightforward. I don't understand how P2 wouldn't "hold up." Some people won't be able to afford this, at least not initially, but there are plenty of other options to make it work and "hold up." It will take some adjustment for people to look at P2 as a reusable medium and not like tape. If the footage coming from this camera is as good as the DVX plus HD, people will take the plunge.
 
What I meant in my opening remarks were manufacuterer defect blunders: RIGHT OUT THE GATE.

I'm not saying to wait for upgrades or something better. I am quite aware that I will wait forever, and NEVER go out a just make a film.

But, if I remember correctly, when the XL1 came out or XL1s (can't remember), there were audio problems.
I'm not saying this camera will have audio problems or that it is Canon, I'm just neverous INITIALLY when these things ship that there willl be those "kinks" that didn't get worked out, and you have a problem camera and a busted bank account.

Thanks for all the input!!!!
 
same could be said for ANY product. but they test it as much as they can afford to before shipping. its not like they just throw it together and ship it out, and if theres issues that are their fault you have a full warranty to cover its repair or replacement. ive never worried about buying a NEW anything. why worry about what tommorow may bring.. when today has enough worries of its own. theres a difference between planning ahead, and simply being paranoid. one simply lives prepared.. the other lives in fear.
the warranty, pana's reputation, and a optimistic attitude are enough preparation for me personally.
 
scenedirector said:
What I meant in my opening remarks were manufacuterer defect blunders: RIGHT OUT THE GATE.

I'm not saying to wait for upgrades or something better. I am quite aware that I will wait forever, and NEVER go out a just make a film.

But, if I remember correctly, when the XL1 came out or XL1s (can't remember), there were audio problems.
I'm not saying this camera will have audio problems or that it is Canon, I'm just neverous INITIALLY when these things ship that there willl be those "kinks" that didn't get worked out, and you have a problem camera and a busted bank account.

Thanks for all the input!!!!
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Not sure why you brought up the DVX100 to 100A, then. That was what most of us were going on in answering . . .
 
Starting with this generation of cameras, I think there are 2 types of 'kinks':

1: Hardware issues. These are design flaws, and are not easily resolved. It involves recalling units etc...
I might step on some toes here, but the HVX200 is NOT revolutionary: It's simply 'putting 2 and 2 together': on the one hand, we have existing P2 technology in a SPX800, and in the other we have a DVX100. A bit of copy and pasting,... ( I know, I know, a bit more than C&P)

2: Software. It used to be that cameras where circuit operated, or had a very simple software in a CMOS. Starting with the P2-series, we have a full OS in the camera. According to a Pana sales-rep I spoke, the SPX-800 runs on Linux. And judging on the screenshots from the HVX-display, it's exactly the same soft.
Complex OS-soft adds a lot of possibilities, but also introduce possible bugs.
But it also introduces the possibility of doing an update quickly yourself( read new bios from a P2-card).
 
wabbit said:
I think when you are dealing a totally new format there is a reason to wait and see if the format is safe and is going to be something you can work with professionally in the long run....
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Wabbit...I'm assuming you are not referring to DVCPro HD being a new format? This format has been around some time. The Panasonic Varicam (HVX sr. if you will) has been using this format sucessfully for quite some time.

That being said, it is a common issue when something truly new hits the market...some are of the frame of mind that they would rather let someone else find out the issues on a new product where as others are willing to "wait in line" to be the first on the block with the latest and the greatest. Most importantly, what do you feel comfortable with and what product do you really need. Is your final output something will truly benefit from being shot in HD? Do you have the computer processing power to handle editing HD? (The May 2005 DV magazine contains interesting information on the needs for editing HDV, HD, etc.)

If you don't really need the HVX-200 that extra $3K-$7K you would be saving buys a lot of additional accessories (or extra gummy bears for the extra's on set).

...just my 1.75 cents plus tax...
 
abeljerrod said:
Wabbit...I'm assuming you are not referring to DVCPro HD being a new format? This format has been around some time. The Panasonic Varicam (HVX sr. if you will) has been using this format sucessfully for quite some time.
Click to expand...

I'll just assume you didn't read the next paragraph. ;-)

wabbit said:
The HVX is based mostly on tried and true technology. The P2 is new but based on technology that has been around awhile.
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Since almost all of the concern expressed around here is about P2, I guess stating the obvious about DVCPro HD didn't occur to me.

In fact my point was mostly about HDV, I guess I wasn't clear...

wabbit said:
I think when you are dealing a totally new format there is a reason to wait and see if the format is safe.... HDV is a perfect example. Still no real conclusions on the longterm viability of that format.
Click to expand...

:)
 
Damn Christopher Walken, you've got a hell of a lot of post. When do you have time to shoot?



I'm planning on getting one from B and H....
 
I think the DVX100 was a bit early on release but bought it anyway and the improvements in the 100a were well thought out. The HVX200 will be developed following behind the DVX incorporating most of it's great qualities. So, I think it most likely will not have earth shaking issues. My bet is that it will be tweaked cam right up front!
 
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