How About Them Apples?

I'm lovin' this update! All resolutions and frame rates to ProRes was really the Holy Grail to me and my FS700. Yet it's wonderful to know that it can play nicely with so many other cameras too.

I appreciate that this has finally been achieved and released. It really is pretty incredible to have this much creative flexibility in a recorder/monitor. The Odyssey7Q has been a great investment.
 
I'm the guy who helped launch the Vision Research Phantom cameras into the production world. I know from high frame rate cinematography. You don't know what high speed can truly be until you have to sign a document before handling a certain camera because its 1.4 MILLION fps capacity is considered a US strategic asset that cannot be exported to foreign soil.

But those cameras cost a bit more than what we're dealing with here and even then they don't record in Apple ProRes.
 
basspig said:
My friend always laughs when I talk about 240fps as 'high frame rate'. He showed me a video that was shot at 74,000fps and said "THAT.. is high frame rate video. That other stuff you can shoot on an iPhone." LOL.
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The high frame rate video that impresses your friend is the sort of equipment that costs over $100,000 for just the camera, and even that equipment (as far as I know) can only reach the speed you're discussing by windowing to a small portion of the sensor. The speed you're discussing is useful for scientific applications, but isn't nearly as practical on a variety of fronts for cinema.

Being able to record pleasing slow motion on the order of 240fps with relatively general purpose equipment as part of an entire camera package costing under $20k is an accomplishment. Not five years ago people were pouring $20k+ just into a Codex recorder kit to get 60fps clean. Now those heavy Codex units can't move on eBay for $2k because Convergent Designs has made a product with more features and cheaper media starting at $2300.

By the way... try lighting a scene at 74,000 fps.
 
Mitch - one of the prior limits on your 240fps was the requirement to record to two mags at once, then join the file afterward in post. This bothered me because it complicates data management on set and seemed to require a larger number of cards be available for high speed recording. Does the new ProRes feature mean 240fps can be recorded to just a single mag in a single slot?

Also, ad copy in your OP says O7Q+. Does this apply equally to the O7Q?
Is this feature available on a base unit without licenses? (It is ProRes, not "raw", so just asking...) Or, does it require either the Sony RAW or RAW Bundle license? Or a new license?

Thanks.
 
It's pretty amazing how far we have come in just a few years.

Anyone else remember shooting high speed on film cameras with 200 or 400 asa film and a 400 or 1000 ft mag? Just getting the camera up to speed would eat a noticeable amount of your mag and the amount of light needed to shoot on 200 or 400 asa stock with a reasonable amount of DOF was considerable. But it was pretty exciting to hear that camera hammer through a dozen feet or more of film per second with the motor whining and mag whirring. People took it serious, because you were burning film stock (i.e. money) at an alarming rate and had to reload almost immediately.

So, yes, getting 240 fps out of a sub $15k camera via a free (!) firmware update is pretty miraculous. Thanks Mitch!
:-)
 
Viddovation said:
Also, ad copy in your OP says O7Q+. Does this apply equally to the O7Q?
Is this feature available on a base unit without licenses? (It is ProRes, not "raw", so just asking...) Or, does it require either the Sony RAW or RAW Bundle license? Or a new license?
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It's available for non-plus 7Q as well...
The Odyssey uses the raw data to turn into ProRes so you need the license for this.
 
Viddovation said:
Mitch - one of the prior limits on your 240fps was the requirement to record to two mags at once, then join the file afterward in post. This bothered me because it complicates data management on set and seemed to require a larger number of cards be available for high speed recording. Does the new ProRes feature mean 240fps can be recorded to just a single mag in a single slot?

Also, ad copy in your OP says O7Q+. Does this apply equally to the O7Q?
Is this feature available on a base unit without licenses? (It is ProRes, not "raw", so just asking...) Or, does it require either the Sony RAW or RAW Bundle license? Or a new license?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Apple ProRes is a significantly smaller file size than uncompressed 12-bit RAW. So only a single SSD is used to record the file.

Recording High Speed Apple ProRes in 4K60p and HD240p from the FS7 and FS700 requires access to the RAW output from these cameras (in the case of the FS7, via the use of the XDCA Extension Unit). Because of the use of the RAW data output (the only way to output high speed from these cameras), the Odyssey RAW Bundle is required. For legacy clients with the original Sony FS RAW Record Option, high speed Apple ProRes recording from these cameras is also now enabled. The new recording capability will work equally well in the Odyssey7Q+ and Odyssey7Q. We do require the use of RAW functionality, but we don't leave anyone behind.
 
Harry Lime said:
It's pretty amazing how far we have come in just a few years.

Anyone else remember shooting high speed on film cameras with 200 or 400 asa film and a 400 or 1000 ft mag? Just getting the camera up to speed would eat a noticeable amount of your mag and the amount of light needed to shoot on 200 or 400 asa stock with a reasonable amount of DOF was considerable. But it was pretty exciting to hear that camera hammer through a dozen feet or more of film per second with the motor whining and mag whirring. People took it serious, because you were burning film stock (i.e. money) at an alarming rate and had to reload almost immediately.

So, yes, getting 240 fps out of a sub $15k camera via a free (!) firmware update is pretty miraculous. Thanks Mitch!
:-)
Click to expand...
I used to work with the old Image 300 camera, which shot up to 300fps on 35mm film. What a beast. No matter what you were shooting you would only get maybe a dozen takes on a 1000' mag if you were really good because the clutch needed plenty of speed up / slow down time so as not to rip the film. And the cleaning out of the camera after every roll! Ug.

Back in my early days I worked as a PA for a commercial house and we had a spot for a salad dressing. We shot for three days with a Photonics 35mm camera at 1000fps. A squirt of "salad dressing" (goop) coming from the left, colliding with a perfectly sliced veggie shot out of an air cannon on the right. All in front of a black velvet backdrop. At that frame rate on that camera you could only get THREE TAKES on a mag, and the fastest projector would roll at 72fps (3x speed, meant for QC work). Over the course of three days the shoot produced a few HUNDRED rolls of dailies, and it was my job (lowest man on totem pole) to sit and watch it all to search for useable takes. Imagine staring at a black screen for three minutes at a time, waiting for that quick glimpse of a slice of cucumber and a squirt of goo. You couldn't look away because it would only last a couple seconds on screen, and 9 out of 10 times they'd miss or barely make contact. Like I said they shot for three days. The vast majority of the time I was staring at a black screen. Mind numbing. Thank God for Howard Stern on the radio. (Maybe I should put this story in the Shoot From Hell thread?)

Anyway, nowadays you roll the take and instantly play back in slow motion to see how it looked. The "High Speed Day" used to be a dreaded thing by production, as not only was special gear needed but also it felt like NOTHING was getting done all day long. Shooting high speed is such a breeze now that y'all are simply spoiled beyond belief.

So how about them apples? :violin:
 
Hahaa. Nice Mitch.

We shot high speed for special effects. Blowing up models, fire elements etc. Usually in the 120-150 fps range on a Mitchell / Fries or Arri 435. Loads of fun.

When I started out one of my jobs was to dust-bust the frames coming off our custom built film scanner. Basically I would sit there for hours on end examining every scanned frame of a shot at high magnification and paint out any dust hits, fuzz, hair whatever in a paint package called Matador. It was the lowest rung job in VFX, the equivalent of shaving lint off sweaters in the costume department, but I was this clueless 21 year old kid, who was so giddy to be working on a big Hollywood movie that I could hardly contain myself.
 
Mitch. Does the Odyssey have Pre-Record? I have a shoot coming up where I need to be pre-recording high speed for a few seconds.
 
DendriteStudios said:
Mitch. Does the Odyssey have Pre-Record? I have a shoot coming up where I need to be pre-recording high speed for a few seconds.
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There is a pre-record mode when shooting in 4K120p burst, which is available only on the FS700 (not the FS7). The memory buffer is 440 frames (3.6 seconds at 120p, 18.3 seconds played back at 24p) and it is actually located in the camera, which is why it is only in the FS700. Set the camera to End Trigger and the buffer loads up and when you hit the Record button it dumps the previous 440 frames to the Odyssey7Q+. We support this in 4K RAW or converted to Apple ProRes in 4K, UHD, 2K or HD.

This video illustrates the process, including how the memory buffer and end trigger work in the 4K120p mode.
http://www.convergent-design.com/support/cd-videos/67-high-speed-prores-setup-video.html
 
Mitch Gross said:
There is a pre-record mode when shooting in 4K120p burst, which is available only on the FS700 (not the FS7). The memory buffer is 440 frames (3.6 seconds at 120p, 18.3 seconds played back at 24p) and it is actually located in the camera, which is why it is only in the FS700. Set the camera to End Trigger and the buffer loads up and when you hit the Record button it dumps the previous 440 frames to the Odyssey7Q+. We support this in 4K RAW or converted to Apple ProRes in 4K, UHD, 2K or HD.

This video illustrates the process, including how the memory buffer and end trigger work in the 4K120p mode.
http://www.convergent-design.com/support/cd-videos/67-high-speed-prores-setup-video.html
Click to expand...


I shot a project yesterday at 180fps internal on the FS7, about 10 minutes straight and don't miss the FS700 memory buffer one bit. The downside is, when waiting for an event to happen, pre record can be handy.
 
Can't upgrade just yet since I'm in the middle of a project. But would it be possible to shoot at 120fps or 240fps while having the Odyssey project frame rate at 25fps? Does Odyssey "conform" the material on the fly?

If not would this be technically possible as a feature?
 
Yes, it is available now and has been since day one. In the RECORD STATUS menu, go to the PROJECT RATE menu item. It is normally set to FOLLOWS INPUT, but you can instead change it to 25 FPS. Done.

Don't forget to change it back later, or it could become a real annoyance down the road.
 
Excellent! I've been using the feature when recording 4K2HD 50fps for slow mo. Pretty amazing I can do this on the fly with 240fps as well! Kudos to CD!!
 
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