Horrible experience! Beware!

sounds like you have had a bad bad experience. maybe you should think about choosing the projects and people you work with a bit better. just jumping in and saying "Don't help Others for Free!" is not really an answer to your problems.

there are many on this forum at the moment producing short films for the horror fest and im sure several of them dont have the funding to 'pay' people. there are also several filmmakers here that i and many others would be glad to help out on their projects without being paid. so your "Don't help Others for Free!" may not be right for everyone.

i would say keep an open mind.. especially if you are starting out. there may be an opportunity in future to work (unpaid) with someone that can open some doors for you.
 
I am very sorry to hear about this experience you had. Very sad story.
I would not turn it in to a rule though. If you want to "play safe", make sure you know VERY WELL the people asking for this favors BEFORE granting them your help. At one point or another in life , we all need help and we should GIVE as well to those deserving it. There is a law of "compensation" and good (or bad) energy people radiate subsequent to their actions. Nothing goes unpaid. Even if they "got away" (or so they think) using you guys, they will not see the benefits of your work. Nature has its "mysterious" way to compensate the ones at loss.... (hmm one year latter and no footage or finished movie... hey?) My 2c.
 
While i'm not saying exactly the same thing as ece, I mean I would help someone and have someone help me in a movie... but it wouldnt be "free" like ece was working for. it's all about give and take for me.
But here is my little warning. Film student asks a friend of mine and his wife to be in his thesis film. They are married so he wants them to kiss in sillohete for a couple of minutes. They had become the opening scene for a mild porn movie. Maybe I'm exsagerating, but when a short is 16 min long and a rape scene lasts 5 min 44 seconds and not one scene excludes some form of sex... what would you call that?
(and no, the stuff wasnt in the script)
So yea, like dan and kovarova said, be carefull.
 
I had my fair of bad experiences like yours.. Did you at least learn a few things besides not to work for fools?

I like to know who these people are..
 
Dan and Korkova you're right. Some people are genuine and would never dream of treating others like that. How do you know when you should help someone and when you shouldn't?

Wow, GlimmerGhost that's unbelievable. Being in a porno without even knowing it. I guess you have to be careful in more ways than one. Not just in choosing who you help, but what you help with.

That's a good lesson about getting a full copy of the script and making sure you know exactly what your helping with.
 
Either way, you vented and it's in the wind... Joining this site was a better decision, here's a big welcome to you from the greatest forum there is.
 
Sorry to hear that ece. sounds like a frustrating, uncomfortable position. These people should not jump into a project if they dont think they can spend an extra what.. 20 bucks max to make free labor happy? I slaps em silly!

BTW I am looking for someone to help me out. take Bart out to my house. I'll reimburse you......as soon as it becomes a blockbuster.
 
ece said:
How do you know when you should help someone and when you shouldn't?
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good question. i think the answer can be different for everyone.

i would just say don't commit to something before you do some home work on who you would be helping. find out what they have completed in the past and know if what they do creatively would be good for you to be a part of. there are millions of ways to get fukced in this biz if money is involved or not. so just be aware of that and continue to do things to move yourself forward. best of luck and welcome to dvxuser.
 
If they were filming you surreptitiously, then that's a quitting offence right there. I wouldn't put up with that kind of bullshyte.

And as to not caring about a girl walking home alone at 3:00 A.M, I can't figure people like that out. I'm overprotective when it comes to that kinda stuff.

Like others have mentioned - You had a crappy experience with putting yourself out there. Well, it's just like dating. One bad date doesn't mean you stop trying. Just like dating, you need to do some prescreening, start out with small dates (easy to get out of), and be friendly and openminded. Also, know when to cut bait.

In future I suggest when volunteering your services, do all of the aforementioned, and get a contract. Even if you are working for free, outlining what each party expects of the other is never a bad thing. At the very least you should have a guaranteed copy of the final product, and be properly listed in the credits.:beer:
 
This life lesson is for all of life. Whether you help someone with a ride, with
a school project, with a business project, there are people who take great
advantage of you (if you let them) and people who truly appreciate your assistance
and will take care of your throughout.

Now you know to get the terms of the agreement to work up front, even
if it's free, let them know what you expect, and go from there.

Charli
 
Thanks guys for the responses and the welcome. It's good to hear that I'm not just overly negative.

BlueSpider, I don't want to disrespect them by putting their names out there. I'm not saying this to blast anyone. I just want others to be weary before getting involved in projects. Kdawg, I'm not sure if you're being funny. I moved to LA now so I'm not in SF anymore. If you really need help, send me a message, and I can ask a few people up there to help you on your shoot.
 
Good point Charli. I have people I cant afford to pay atm. But we do have an agreement of sorts and a handshake on expectations.

But even so, I provide food and refreshements. Usually just have an esky on site as well with drinks for anytime people require.

Now I do have some limits. For example there is a guy who wants to help me out, he has no experience to speak of, and contacted me via a friend of a friend. The point is he lives a long distance and would travel far every day - travel costs equal high. So I said to him up front, youll get food and drink everyday but you will need to make your own way. I thought in this case it was reasonable.
 
Some people are genuine and would never dream of treating others like that. How do you know when you should help someone and when you shouldn't?
Click to expand...
How to tell genuine people from fake people is one of the great mysteries of life. As we grow older we continue to perfect the methods that seem to work best for us, but I very much doubt that anyone has come up with any foolproof way to tell the "good guys" from the "bad guys". Past experiences certainly help to shape how we react to new situations. Live and learn... and then have trust in our best judgment.

I have the feeling that "look before you leap" may apply before volunteering for just about anything.
 
One of the rules of filmmaking is, If someone volunteers their time to your project, you have to take care of food and transportation.
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Sounds like you didn't trust your instincts. You had warning signs, but didn't listen to them. Just ask early on about parking + food. If they are legit, they should at least cover these.

Sorry that happened to you, but there are also people out there who have integrity and care about the team. :thumbup:
 
Hello all I am new here and first off id like to say I am sorry some people out there are real idiots. Second i believe that you should ask always before hand whats going down. You shpould have said well i need to take a train am i gona get my tickets paid for yes or no? About not working for free i can see why. I am a photagrapher for the queens times and most of my begining work i did for free. They too felt like i was privliged to work for them. At first i like it because i met new people got to see the Jets play on the field hey what more can u want. After awile I relaized my time is wasted so i walked to the office and told them that for now on i want to get some form of payment for my time. They first acted like they didint want me and told me im free to leave. Then they were stuck one day and called me and then wow i got a job. People espcialy in this idustry are morans.
I myself am now directing/producing my own tv seires if hopfuly it gets exepted. I found 2 guys who are working for free because i also lacked the funds after wasting over 11 thousand bux on stuff i needed. I treated them well gave them food free head shots for their families and them. I made sure they new i wa honored to have them there. Later i had one call sick and after that both were a noshow. I was stuck not knowing much about filming realy sucked. My actors are restless but still loyal and all and i strated learning the art of filming. I am still learning as i go along. special effects is my thing but the art of filming was hard. Im still screwed so it works realy both ways sometimes when you are nice u get screwed too. I
 
Hello all I am new here and first off id like to say I am sorry some people out there are real idiots. Second i believe that you should ask always before hand whats going down. You shpould have said well i need to take a train am i gona get my tickets paid for yes or no? About not working for free i can see why. I am a photagrapher for the queens times and most of my begining work i did for free. They too felt like i was privliged to work for them. At first i like it because i met new people got to see the Jets play on the field hey what more can u want. After awile I relaized my time is wasted so i walked to the office and told them that for now on i want to get some form of payment for my time. They first acted like they didint want me and told me im free to leave. Then they were stuck one day and called me and then wow i got a job. People espcialy in this idustry are morans.
I myself am now directing/producing my own tv seires if hopfuly it gets exepted. I found 2 guys who are working for free because i also lacked the funds after wasting over 11 thousand bux on stuff i needed. I treated them well gave them food free head shots for their families and them. I made sure they new i wa honored to have them there. Later i had one call sick and after that both were a noshow. I was stuck not knowing much about filming realy sucked. My actors are restless but still loyal and all and i strated learning the art of filming. I am still learning as i go along. special effects is my thing but the art of filming was hard. Im still screwed so it works realy both ways sometimes when you are nice u get screwed too. I wish u lived in New York. I would have treated you like a queen especialy after what happned i would have treated you like a godess lol.
My point for both sides are know who your working for. Make sure you have contracts which helps alot.
Now don't let this get you down. Move on and heed the words of all here whos trying to help. Youll be fine. Expierence does go a long way. Who knows one day u might work for the next spielberg.
 
I think it all depends on what you hope to get out it. Are you helping a friend with a film that is being done by amatuers and probably won't go anyplace? You know what you are getting into and can decide if you want to spend your time on that endeavour. All you will get is the gratitude of a friend, some amatuer production experience to learn from, and hopefully some good times.

If some guy post on Craiglist for free help then, IMHO, run away as fast as you can. You have nothing to gain from this experience...or atl east not enought to make up for your time and the abuse your will probably suffer. A better use of your time would be to intern on a true professional production for free, make good contacts, and really learn how it is suppose to be done. It really isn't that hard to find these. Why volunteer for a stranger who will surround you with amatuers all fumbling their way through production leaving you with no production experience and contacts of other people that got sucked in. There are so many better ways to gain experience...like start your own production and enlist the help of your FRIENDS.

These no budget productions (almost) never go anywhere. If they don't have the business sense to raise some cash for the production or the commitment to put in their own, they are not going to be able to do anything with the finished product even if it doesn't turn out to be crap.

For far too long these charlatans have been abusing the naivity of people hoping to get into the glamorous world of moviemaking. They misuse the good will of others to further their own interests. Even if they ever do succeed you will never see a cent or get another call from them as they now work with real professionals (FYI points are easily manipulated to become meaningless at the point of sale).

If you do decide to work for one of these people, find out what they have done before, where it's gone, and who worked on it. Discuss with them their distribution plans. Most of the time they talk about film festivals but have no idea how to navigate a film festival politically. They have not done their homework because they are in a rush to get their vision on video with little investment on their part and don't care who they take advantage of in the process. Talk to the people who worked with them before and find out what they are like. If the producers are not forthcoming with this info then beware.

No matter what your experience is your time is money and for a feature length picture figure it will take a minimum of 200 hours work. Multiple that by even minimum wage and that is money/time you are losing. Would you give that much money to a total stranger for promises of magic beans?

If the person has no experience and doesn't talk all high and mighty about how this is gonna kill at the film festivals then atleast you know what you are getting into and not being manipulated by a shammer.

That is my rant.

Cheers
 
keep working and keep a healthy, kind and generous attitude. Those are the people who survive on set, because I am going to have to live with these people for the betterpart of three months, almost everyday! Keep your head up!
 
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