HMC40 with XLR adapter (STILLS)

ShugPro Digital Studio

ShugPro Digital Studio

Active member
Here's a few shots of my HMC40 with the Panasonic XLR mic adapter and an Audio Technica AT875R short shotgun mic. (the mic cable I'm using right now is a bit too long)

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is this worth buying right off the hop? i intend on getting an HMC40 soon, but can't decide if i should drop money on an extra battery, wide angle lens, or the xlr adapter.
 
depends on what you have available.

I happen to have a Rode Video mike, so I think the XLR thing can wait a few weeks.

Extra battery is always nice. If you have a burning need for a wide angle (like a confined shoot already lined up, for example), that might be the thing you need, especially if you have easy access to AC power at said shoot.


Examine your needs and prioritize accordingly. I have seen some VERY good tests using the Videomike on a short run, but you could easily run into a need for ballanced inputs if you need the mike cable to be more than 10' long (and that is certainly NOT something you want to discover the day of the shoot).

Also, are you planning on using a separate audio recorder and syncing sound.

Either way, reports I have read indicate that the internal mike on the HMC is not very good due to its location (still waiting on mine - hopefully here this week). So plan on something in that area soon if you need good sound.
 
v3rlon said:
depends on what you have available.

Either way, reports I have read indicate that the internal mike on the HMC is not very good due to its location (still waiting on mine - hopefully here this week). So plan on something in that area soon if you need good sound.
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i am starting from scratch, and am trying to decide if i could get by with 1/8" mic for now. in terms of planned shoots, i am going to film my brother's wedding in mexico. i would need audio for this.

i also have some plans to make a couple of BMX web-videos or possibly full length DVD-type video. i wouldn't necessarily need good audio for this though.

thanks.
 
The user guide says 3 hours 15 minutes however, when the XLR adapter is connected the the power goes from 5.8 watts to 7.8 watts (max). Figure that the battery time will drop by about 74%, maybe even less.

Thus, 3 hours = 3 x 60 minutes per hour = 180 minutes
180 minutes + 15 minutes = 195 minutes
195 minutes x 0.74 (74%) = about 144 minutes = 2 hours 24 minutes

The larger battery is around $170.
Panasonic's XLR adapter is around $280; be sure to add the cost of the mic and cable.
The wide angle adapter is around $120 --> $200 depending on which make and model.


IF you plan of running for long times, the battery will be your first choice.

IF you go with the Rode Video mic $150, you can skip the XLR adapter or get it later on...

IF flexible audio is important to you, the XLR adapter is a must.

IF you shoot in tight areas, the wide angle adapter is a must.


I hope this helps, because the right answer all depends on what you plan on shooting.


Bob Diaz
 
Either way, reports I have read indicate that the internal mike on the HMC is not very good due to its location (still waiting on mine - hopefully here this week). So plan on something in that area soon if you need good sound.
Click to expand...

In my tests, the on camera mic is OK, but not great. I find it picks up too much camera noise as I press things.


Bob Diaz
 
Well, just guessing the BMX things will be mostly bikes cut to music with a good groove and interviews, no?

The wedding presents a few choices. Are you planning on puting a wireless lapel mike on the groom? That would be my first choice (easy to hide. can pick up the vows and all). And then use something else to mike the room? You could probably pull this off using 1/8" jack equipment, but make sure you get a good wirless mike for that, and test the range...be sure.

I would suggest that if you think you are going to go with XLR mikes in the future, don't invest in 1/8" gear unless you have to. Better to save a little longer and get the XLR stuff than to have to buy the same gear twice.
 
My decision to get the XLR adapter at the same time as the camera was an easy one. A big part of that choice was based on the control the adapter gives you. First, no dealing with the touchscreen menus in the middle of a shot, and second, and much more important is a technique that I've always used on Panasonic pro cameras in the past: You can assign input 2 to both channels, this allows you to set one channel at a higher level and one at a lower level. using one mic, you get 2 audio tracks at 2 different levels. In post you can choose which one to use. This way you aren't stuck with audio that is too quiet or too loud. It's saved my butt many times.

Although the adapter seems expensive, to me, the price of the camera w/the adapter is still a better deal than other cameras in this price range. I already had an Audio Technica 1/8" shotgun mic, but didn't want wait to get the best sound I could from the HMC.

(I also got the larger battery right away, the longer recording times possible with SD cards made that choice a no-brainer as well)

I'll probably run into the need for a wide angle adapter pretty soon and regret not having gotten that right away as well.

I do a wide variety of different video projects, so I need to be as flexible as possible. If you know what you're going to be shooting, figure out what is most critical for your situation and start with that.

I agree with the poster above that it's silly to invest in 1/8" sound equipment if you're planning on getting XLR gear in the near future.
 
ooh... That is a good tip I didn't know about. So you set input 2 to both tracks, but still control each tracks levels individually?

Hmm.... another tidbit for the FAQs/Tips section we hope to have soon.
 
In my case, I had the BeachTek DXA-4S adapter already, so I could put off getting the Panasonic Adapter. The DXA-2s is about $150 and the DXA-4... is about $180.


While the audio is very good through this adapter, it does have limits:

(1) No phantom power through this adapter; one needs a higher model for phantom power OR you are limited to mics that do not require phantom power. (At the price for the higher model, you might as well purchased the Panasonic Adapter.)

(2) The Trim Pots can only reduce the level, they can NOT increase gain. This means that either I have to set the gain high on the camera and reduce via the trim pots (possible noise problem) OR just forget the trim pots and adjust the gain with the camera's menu system.


For now I'm taking the "Lazy Man's Way" of dealing with gain. I let the Automatic Gain for Audio in the camera take care of it. While this works, I do risk an effect called "Breathing", that's where the main sound stops and the gain circuit increases the gain, which causes the background noise to increase. As soon as the main sound starts again, the gain is reduced and the background noise drops.


The Panasonic XLR adapter has the controls that make it easy to set the gain. About the only downside to the Panasonic adapter is that one can not use it in auto gain mode.



Bob Diaz
 
HMC40 doesn't have automatic audio gain... it has a limiter, but not an automatic level control. The manual is confusing on that issue, but you shouldn't be dealing with any level of pumping of the background noise...
 
Then the limiter must have worked better than I would have thought. When I shot the train footage, some of the engines were very loud. I had assumed the ALC would have kicked in, ... well the limiter kicked in.

That's good to know, because for anything that over drives the mic, the limiter is there, but for softer sounds, I MUST adjust the gain in the menu with my current system or end up with a problem.

Given that the Panasonic XLR adapter has the pots in easy reach, that's a powerful reason to switch over to their adapter...

Bob Diaz


P.S.

In re-reading the manual, the limiter still works for the Panasonic XLR Adapter, assuming you turn it on. I had some confusion about that. I can't see any logical reason to ever turn it off.

Thus for the internal mic or any 1/8" mic, one would most likely want the "MIC LEVEL SEL" (page 103) to be MANUAL. Unless you had some sort of pot adjustment on your system.

I think I need to try a test, where I crank the audio gain to maximum and play with the pots on the back of my BeachTek XLR Adapter. I'm not 100% sure if this will produce excessive noise or not...


Bob
 
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Just got hired to film something next monday specifically because my camera can plug into the venue's XLR podium mic (through a mic splitter) and avoid all the room noise.....and because the AVCHD workflow allow them to get it up online right away. (4 segments, each will be shot on a different SD card, they can start compressing the first one as soon as it's done, etc. by the end of the speeches, they'll only have the last one to compress and the first 3 will already be uploading) I've gotten more jobs in the 2 weeks that i've had this camera than the month before I had it. So far, so good.
 
Thanks for showing those pix. When I looked online at the one picture they have I was left wondering how to adjust sound since I could not tell from their shot that there were the knobs at the back. This makes me want to get the xlr adapter.

I have two rode mic's. The M3 which I am very happy with and the NT-G2 which is driving me nuts. I originally bought it for a Canon MKII, but after a few weeks gave up on it. I should say I gave up on the mic first because no matter what I did the mike would not pick up at further away that five inches. I blamed it on the camera and since I hated the body anyhow I sold it and went back to Nikon.

So now I want to use the NT-G2 on the Panasonic - and I find that it has the same behavior! Grrr! I took it back to the dealer and we tried two others with the same results. We tried a different cable too - no dice. The Rode tech support said that it should pick up in a tight pattern up to 10-12 feet. Is that the experience you gents are having? I am currently using a Mogami 12" XLR to 1/4 jack cable and keep wondering since multiple cables and Mic's have not worked (and the batteries are always fresh) then perhaps this mic is simply meant to work well only with XLR?
But I've seen others using XLR to 1/4" on SLRs and it seemed to be a great combo.

Any ideas or comments? Thanks.
How far away does the optional XLR Panasonic mike pick up? How tight is it? Are you happy with it? I'm thinking of trading the Rode back ... but want to investigate this as best as I can, seeing how good their reputation is. :)
 
ShupPro, your mic is smaller than Bob's mic.....

To get phantom power and XLR input on a cam in this price range is pretty unique. Does anyone have experience on the audio quality of the HMC 40. Is it similar to other Panny cams like the DVX or HV?

Regards,
Grant
 
for sample audio....
If you go to my Beginner's Video on the footage/stills sub-forum, all of the audio was captured on the cam using an AT875R (XLR mic) through the Panasonic XLR adapter (all of the outdoor footage audio was camera mounted).

It appears to work.
 
Pavel+ said:
Thanks for showing those pix. When I looked online at the one picture they have I was left wondering how to adjust sound since I could not tell from their shot that there were the knobs at the back. This makes me want to get the xlr adapter.
Click to expand...

that's why i posted them, i could only find one other picture that showed the the pots on the back.
 
Pavel+ said:
How far away does the optional XLR Panasonic mike pick up? How tight is it? Are you happy with it?
Click to expand...

I don't have the Panasonic XLR mic, I have the Audio-Technica AT875R. It was about the same price, and I've had and used lots of AT mics in the past that I've really liked. I trust Panasonic to make great cameras, but I wanted a mic from a company that specializes in making microphones. For a 6" shotgun mic, I'm very happy with it.

Here's a couple of shots my friend took of me on his Canon 5DmkII.
The HMC40 is hooked up to the podium mic in the room, and the AT shotgun (as a backup)
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