HMC40/Windows users here?

Macfionn

Macfionn

Active member
So many people here are using macs for post processing, and I'm learning absolutely nothing from them, as obviously, I don't use Imovie.

Do we have any hmc40/windows users here that we can kind of band together for tips and tricks on specific windows based editing software?
 
Like what tips do you want to know? Easiest one is to use the free EDIUS Neo 2 you probably got with the camera; if you get the AVCHD Booster Pack (also free, depending on when you got it) you just drag 'n' drop files to the timeline and you're done, realtime editing with no hassles...
 
Yeah, kind of depends on your edit package.

Edius, as mentioned, comes with the camera, but ..I dunno... so far it isn't really calling to me. Is there a GOOD sight for tutorials for this?

I use Newtek's SpeedEdit for the 'pro' tools. Some basic tutorials can be found here ... http://myschooltv.com/index.php?option=com_weblinks&view=category&id=20%3Ase-tut&Itemid=20 Also check out www.bobfx.com for some cool plugins to use with it.

I also use Pinnacle at times for other things. It is a consumer app, so its easy, but not powerful.

I've downloaded the 30 day trial of Vegas, and so far, so good, but so far isn't very far...yet.

Others will talk about Premier or Avid.

I don't think anyone loves Windows Movie Maker, but I could be wrong.
 
SpeedEdit doesn't yet support AVCHD natively, it remains to be seen if/when it will be updated. Until then, what are you doing -- using the P2 converter?

Vegas works pretty well, but it doesn't now have, nor likely will it have, graphics card acceleration.

Premiere has graphics card acceleration and, on a system with a good nVidia CUDA graphics card, will give you realtime performance and more. But CS4 has a bug in the way it processes progressive 4:2:0 chroma, so I'm less happy with it than I used to be.

Avid as of yet has no AVCHD support; you'd have to use the Panasonic transcoder to convert the files to P2 files.
 
I thought the premier gfx boost required the quaddro card, not 'any CUDA card' thus adding a lot to that pricetag.
 
v3rlon said:
SE2 DOES support AVCHD natively, but at the moment I only have 1 and yes, converting files.
Click to expand...
That's not supporting it natively. That's converting files. Native means you can plug in your card and directly edit the footage immediately.

According to the SpeedEdit press release, the update to SE2:
SpeedEDIT 2 works natively for real-time editing with XDCAM HD, XDCAM EX, QuickTime and AC3 Audio. This update also transcodes additional formats, including selected types of AVCHD.
Click to expand...

So they have native support for P2, XDCAM-EX, etc., but conversion support for AVCHD.
 
Barry_Green said:
Like what tips do you want to know? Easiest one is to use the free EDIUS Neo 2 you probably got with the camera; if you get the AVCHD Booster Pack (also free, depending on when you got it) you just drag 'n' drop files to the timeline and you're done, realtime editing with no hassles...
Click to expand...

I have EDIUS Neo 2, as you described. But I think I'd rather be using a software that has more of a users base as to have somewhere to turn. For that purpose I was thinking of Vegas as well. But as you stated, it doesnt have graphics card acceleration. I don't have a quad core either. merely a duo core 3.00, so yes, even more smaller files take a short bit to crunch out.

I know eventually I'll pick all this up, as Im pretty good at that. But I always hated starting at the bottom. Some things are just intuitive for me. videography, unfortunately, isn't one of them. So I have to learn it the old fashion way.
 
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You really should give Neo2 a shot. Just check the GV forums if you have questions. It might not have a huge user base, but it does have many long time users who are willing to help you get going.
 
I also (strongly) suggest you get to know Edius Neo 2 (w/booster). On the whole it's pretty dang good and solid for basic editing, very well suited for editing AVCHD source footage, and perhaps the most stable NLE out there for the PC. As Barry said, it probably is the easiest NLE to use (especially with the booster upgrade, which you can get free thru Panny), and GV has their own forums, as ATL mentioned - http://ediusforum.grassvalley.com/forum/.

There are also some excellent freeware tools for working with video on the PC. I wouldn't give up VirtualDub, AVISynth or x264 without a fight! If you don't have VirtualDub, I suggest you download it, and also download MSU's Denoiser Filter (for VDub) - http://compression.ru/video/denoising/index_en.html. With VirtualDub, you can do much better quality image resizing (like if you want to convert 1080p video to 720p for putting it on the internet) than with any NLE I know of (and most NLEs resize images quite poorly). That MSU Denoiser Filter is one of the very best denoising filters out there. It's very useful for cleaning up footage when you need to shoot with a lot of gain. It's also useful for pre-filtering video before compressing, especially when you need to compress your footage using relatively low bitrates, like for uploading to YouTube or for DIY internet video hosting - very light denoising will help encoding efficiency (end result is slightly better visual image quality at a given bitrate - the lower the encoding bitrate, the more light denoising beforehand helps).

You can probably get by for a little while with a 3GHz dual core CPU, using Neo 2 with the booster upgrade (especially if you transcode your footage to Canopus HQ before editing - Canopus HQ gives you decent quality and is real easy on the CPU), but dropping a quad core CPU in your machine would likely be very good idea. Is that an Intel or an AMD processor?

If you have an Intel motherboard that can accommodate Core 2 quads, and live near a MicroCenter store, you can get a Q9550 for $170 (they've been selling them below cost, as loss leaders to get folks in the store). Otherwise, if you have an AMD motherboard that can accommodate Phenom IIs, they can also be quite cost effective nowadays too. A 3.4GHz Phenom II X4 is $180 from Newegg, and actually offers just slightly better overall performance than an Intel Q9550. Those two CPUS are really quite close by most measures, and with Neo 2 w/booster, can handle AVCHD dropped straight onto the timeline pretty darn well.
 
This from John Perkins, the lead speed edit engineer...


I can't claim that it will edit every avchd file, but I've tested clips from many, many cameras and so far we have played them all, including Panasonic avccam, in both .mts (raw from the camera) and m2ts (imported, converted) formats.

There is also a new feature that will "dig up" the files buried in the camera folders so that they are easier to access.

SE2 will edit avchd directly in realtime if the system is fast enough. That said, avchd is inherently hard to play.


(linked here http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104262)

Whether that counts as 'native' or 'transcode' and whether that depends on the fact that., as I understand it, SE uses an intermediary CODEC for other things is a bit above my pay grade (since I am doing this for free) right now.

I can say that with SE2, you shouldn't need any OTHER software, as I do with SE1.

As far as user base goes, it is probably in about the same boat as Edius, though. They seem to have something odd in how plugins work, so nothing from Red Giant or New Blue or such, and I won't claim its all roses. I got SE1 at a special price as a Lightwave owner, and now it is what I know.

If it was perfect, I wouldn't have downloaded Vegas.

Also, Vegas includes an authoring package that lets you make DVDs with chapters and menus and so on. If you want those kinds of features, you will need an authoring program should you stick with Edius (or use SpeedEdit 2 for that matter), but you can burn a dvd direct from the timeline without one.

Then again, most DVD players will eat mp4s and what have you now, anyway.
 
What they say is that there are licensing issues involved. They have to pay fees to certain companies even for demo versions that license certain codecs, and so no demo at this time. They go on to explain that a demo without those licenses would be silly as it would not fully or accurately illustrate the program.

:(

I, and several others, have mentioned that it will be hard to get people to buy in when the competition offers said demos and they do not, but I don't make the deccisions.

If it helps, a local Newtek dealer can probably arrange some kind of hands on time with the product, and Newtek is really good about refunds and such. But as far as I know, no 30 day trial is planned, and I think that is a real drag.
 
I loaded Edius Neo Booster to give it a try but, I have been using Sony Vegas Pro for so long that I just find it more comfortable. If I wasn't already using Vegas; Edius Neo is pretty good.

Vegas can handle AVCHD natively, although not as well as Edius Neo Booster. I just use a 2.4GHz Dual Core Centrino laptop to edit. Even though Vegas handles AVCHD I almost always use Cineform NeoScene to convert the AVCHC files to Cineform AVI. The Cineform AVI files edit a bit smoother and during conversion they are converted to 4:2:2 (it's not as good as source 4:2:2, but does seem to be better than using the 4:2:0 natively in AVCHD).
 
Well, that's excellent news if SpeedEdit 2 actually allows editing of the MTS or M2TS files. From the wording in their press release it sounded as if it certainly didn't, so ... even though they're stopping short of saying "full native editing" I still look at it as a positive.

As for the limited demo and the royalties -- that's a real issue. Other programs (like Premiere) offer demos, but they disable things like the h.264 support specifically because of the licensing issues.
 
Ok. Based on the high recommendations from this short list, I'll start putting Edious Neo 2 through the paces. I just wish there was a hands-on video such as Lynda.com makes available for Vegas and Premiere.

I'm REALLY glad to see we have a handfull of windows users here as well. Makes things a tad less lonely. :D

Robert M Wright said:
If you have an Intel motherboard that can accommodate Core 2 quads, and live near a MicroCenter store, you can get a Q9550 for $170 (they've been selling them below cost, as loss leaders to get folks in the store). Otherwise, if you have an AMD motherboard that can accommodate Phenom IIs, they can also be quite cost effective nowadays too. A 3.4GHz Phenom II X4 is $180 from Newegg, and actually offers just slightly better overall performance than an Intel Q9550. Those two CPUS are really quite close by most measures, and with Neo 2 w/booster, can handle AVCHD dropped straight onto the timeline pretty darn well.
Click to expand...

Im running a Dell Optiplex 755. with a dual core 3.0 intel cpu chip. So yes, I can and should highly consider swapping it out. Up until i got this camera, I was fine with my system. But i spent so much on the camera rig, now I have to be patient on the CPU. With in hindsight, should have been my SECOND purchase!!
 
Look on the Grass Valley site, there's lots of videos for using EDIUS, they should be pretty much directly applicable to Neo 2.
 
Barry_Green said:
Vegas works pretty well, but it doesn't now have, nor likely will it have, graphics card acceleration.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't count Vegas out. It's been 64-bit for over a year now, while most others are still catching up. That's a small boost, but a boost where you need it most... editing rather than just rendering.

Barry_Green said:
Premiere has graphics card acceleration and, on a system with a good nVidia CUDA graphics card, will give you realtime performance and more. But CS4 has a bug in the way it processes progressive 4:2:0 chroma, so I'm less happy with it than I used to be.
Click to expand...

At least from what I've read (I'm not a user), Premiere Pro CS4 isn't itself using GPU acceleration for anything. But various plug-ins do. For example, RapiHD, which speeds up rendering to H.264, but last I heard, it's only for the Quadro CX card. RapiHD was done by the guys who did Badaboom. See here:
http://www.evliving.com/2009/06/30/...ins-dramatically-boost-performance-for-adobe/

Premiere has always supported a few dedicated hardware cards doing general video acceleration... it used to be Matrox, I don't know what's current on this. But it was always pricey.

I think this stuff is settled enough now that it's going to be a requirement for high-end NLEs to support general GPU acceleration. I didn't expect Sony to support random GPU APIs in Vegas, but now that there are card-indepnendent standards, I wouldn't be surprised at all.

Barry_Green said:
Avid as of yet has no AVCHD support; you'd have to use the Panasonic transcoder to convert the files to P2 files.
Click to expand...

Well, Avid's Avid... it wasn't long ago that they didn't let you mix different formats and refresh rates together on the timeline, period. Vegas has had that since Version 2, and that only because the original Vegas was an audio sequencer only.
 
Barry_Green said:
But CS4 has a bug in the way it processes progressive 4:2:0 chroma, so I'm less happy with it than I used to be.
Click to expand...


What exactly is that bug? How is it manifested?
(or someone please point me to any thread discussing this issue since I somehow missed it)
 
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