I'm wondering the same thing. This one has 1080/60i, 1080/30p, and 1080/24p. I assume the image quality is more robust at this resolution than the GH1?
HMC40 price update $1,995!
- Thread starter Johnnyfive
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I'm wondering the same thing. This one has 1080/60i, 1080/30p, and 1080/24p. I assume the image quality is more robust at this resolution than the GH1?
Terry_Lasater
All about the Caption
robust: 1 a: having or exhibiting strength or vigorous health b: having or showing vigor, strength, or firmness <a robust debate> <a robust faith> c: strongly formed or constructed : sturdy <a robust plastic> d: capable of performing without failure under a wide range of conditions <robust software>
John Caballero
Veteran
Now if only Panasonic put the 4/3s sensor in this cam and gave interchangeable lens option it would be a much better camera than both of them separately.
Barry_Green
Moderator
I would certainly presume that the codec is more robust. Don't know about the overall image quality yet -- you're talking some very, very tiny pixels in there. 2,000 pixels in a space of 3.6mm, for a pixel size of 0.0018 millimeters, or, what, 2 microns?
On the GH1, it's 4,000 pixels in the space of 18mm, or about 0.0045 millimeters, or around 3x as large as the pixels in the HMC40.
I expect the HMC40's codec will be very very good, it sounds like it's the same as in the HMC150. And obviously the DOF on the GH1 will be shallower, on the HMC40 it'll be deeper. But I just don't know about dynamic range, noise performance, sensitivity, etc., I expect those all may be better on the GH1.
But as an operational camera, the HMC40 should blow the GH1 into the weeds. It's a real video camera, with all that that entails.
Barry_Green
Moderator
I've been pitching that idea to them already for months. Well, I want it in the HPX170 body instead of the tiny HMC40 body, with all the HPX170 features/controls etc... :thumbsup:
> I would certainly presume that the codec is more robust.
> ...
> I expect the HMC40's codec will be very very good,
> it sounds like it's the same as in the HMC150.
Barry, do you have any idea why, after producing AVCHD camcorders for more than two years, Panasonic released the GH1 with a horrible encoder? Do still and video teams talk to each other at all? Is it a different codec that the one used in other Pana camcorders? If yes, then why? If not, then why it produces such horrible results?
All I can say that while panning the HMC40 looks very good and does not produce mud that the GH1 produces.
> ...
> I expect the HMC40's codec will be very very good,
> it sounds like it's the same as in the HMC150.
Barry, do you have any idea why, after producing AVCHD camcorders for more than two years, Panasonic released the GH1 with a horrible encoder? Do still and video teams talk to each other at all? Is it a different codec that the one used in other Pana camcorders? If yes, then why? If not, then why it produces such horrible results?
All I can say that while panning the HMC40 looks very good and does not produce mud that the GH1 produces.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Different companies. PH mode is only available on the Broadcast division's product lineup. And the B-frame-less implementation of AVCHD comes from the consumer side. They're actually different companies, and sometimes they share a little bit of the product lineup but for the most part, not.
So, do they talk to each other? Probably not as much as you'd think.
As far as "horrible results", we've gotten some fantastic results out of the GH1. I'd much prefer the PH mode, of course, but the GH1 can be tamed to deliver excellent, beautiful footage. You just don't have the flexibility to throw anything and everything at it, like you would be able to if it used PH mode.
So my hope is for a Broadcast revision of the GH1, to update it with the more powerful, better PH-mode implementation of the codec (and other niceties such as audio and video monitoring!)
So, do they talk to each other? Probably not as much as you'd think.
As far as "horrible results", we've gotten some fantastic results out of the GH1. I'd much prefer the PH mode, of course, but the GH1 can be tamed to deliver excellent, beautiful footage. You just don't have the flexibility to throw anything and everything at it, like you would be able to if it used PH mode.
So my hope is for a Broadcast revision of the GH1, to update it with the more powerful, better PH-mode implementation of the codec (and other niceties such as audio and video monitoring!)
I did not even mean the PH and the AVCCAM lineup. The SD1 was released in 2006. It is a consumer camcorder. I own it. It shoots in 1440x1080/60i @ 13 Mbit/s CBR. It does not show anything even remotely like mud that the GH1 shows in 1920x1080/24p VBR. I also have the SD100, it works ok in 1920x1080/24pN @ 17 Mbit/s. It is a bit blurry, not very sharp and detailed, but shows nothing like mud that the GH1 shows in 24p mode.
Are consumer camcorders and consumer digicams produced by the same company/department, or different ones? Do THESE departments talk to each other? How many departments does Panasonic have? Does each and every department have to come up with their own software and hardware? This is just insane.
John Caballero
Veteran
On the HPX170 would be awesome. P2, DVCpro and all the features with a 4/3s interchangeable lens? Wow. And the price should be not much higher given the fact that they are putting the sensor on a $1500 GH1, lens included. Barry, I hope they listen to you and give us a nice surprise soon.
Barry_Green
Moderator
If they did an HPX170-style version, I would expect it to be priced along the same lines as the HPX170 currently is.
As for the consumer lineup (SD1, SD100 etc) I've never used those and didn't even know what modes they support. The GH1 is the first Panasonic consumer device I think I've ever bought.
So no, I don't know what the divisions are and do; I just know that Consumer accounts for something like 90% of Panasonic's camcorder/video revenues, and Broadcast accounts for about 10%.
I was quite frankly very surprised to see how different the AVCHD implementation is in the GH1. I would have expected it to be comparable to the existing cameras. And, truth be told, it can do well. It's just not nearly as robust when conditions are less than optimal, that's for sure.
As for the consumer lineup (SD1, SD100 etc) I've never used those and didn't even know what modes they support. The GH1 is the first Panasonic consumer device I think I've ever bought.
So no, I don't know what the divisions are and do; I just know that Consumer accounts for something like 90% of Panasonic's camcorder/video revenues, and Broadcast accounts for about 10%.
I was quite frankly very surprised to see how different the AVCHD implementation is in the GH1. I would have expected it to be comparable to the existing cameras. And, truth be told, it can do well. It's just not nearly as robust when conditions are less than optimal, that's for sure.
John Caballero
Veteran
Would it be much difficult for Panasonic to implement native 24p on the 1080, 720 and even the MJPEG 720 on the GH1 thru firmare? 24p native on any of those would be very good at this point I think.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD
Panasonic released its first AVCHD camcorders in the fall of 2006. The HDC-DX1 recorded to a 8 cm DVD with maximum bitrate of 12 Mbit/s. The HDC-SD1 recorded onto an SDHC card with maximum bitrate of 13 Mbit/s. Both models had a 1/4-inch 3CCD sensor. The sensor was actually quite good, the HMC70 uses the same sensor and records at the same 13 Mbit/s bitrate as the SD1, so in fact Panasonic's departments DO talk to each other when they REALLY want to share knowledge and cut costs. Another case in point: the HMC40 uses the sensor block, the lens, the LCD and parts of the menu system from the consumer HS300/TM300/SD300.
Considering the above, it seems REALLY strange to me that the GH1 does not use the fruits that have been borne by another department. Ok, I guess this turns into a pointless rant.
P.S. The consumer Panasonic models peak up at 17 Mbit/s, unlike consumer Canon models that can give Panasonic's PH mode a good run for its money. but Canon has no professional AVCHD lineup to protect.
Nik Manning
Well-known member
I think they dropped the price to make room for a 4/3 size hpx-170. It makes sense that they would do this because we are obviously waiting for it and they know we will pay around $3,500 for it.
Exactly why I'm considering selling my GH1. I miss having a good ol' fashion video camera. I don't need two DVSLRs ... the 5DM2 & GH1.
A 4/3 P2 camera for $3,500? Not in this year. The HMC150 is being sold for the same price extremely well. They dropped the price on the HMC40 to protect the price on the HMC150 and to separate these two markets: one for "kiddies on skateboards" (not my term by the way) and another for "serious videographers".
John Caballero
Veteran
I would say a 4/3s HPX170 would be around 5 grand. A bargain for what it would do. It would be a direct competitor of Scarlet, if it either one ever come out.
SixPalmPro
Member
Ha, maybe kiddies in Orange County. $2,000 is still serious money, and I was under the impression this could be a viable B camera, for videography or fiction filmmaking. Do you know who used that term?
Nektonic
Veteran
Same thing with the rumored Canon APS-C HD video camera. It is supposed to be around 7 grand.
I don't know though. If Panasonic can sell the GH-1 for 1,500 bucks, then I don't think that a 4/3 HPX170 would have to be exactly that high. Maybe a little higher price than the HPX/HVX range, like 6,000 - 8,000. I guess it could all depend on when Scarlet comes out and how well it performs. If they wanted to be very competitive against the 2/3 Scarlets, then they will be way high at 8,000+.
Not saying it wouldn't be that much, but I think it would be a bit too high if it were.
Yes, I do know who used this term. Not going to point a finger though.