HMC40 online review

M

Mark Von Lanken

Well-known member
I recently reviewed the HMC40 for Event DV Magazine. EventDV.net: The Event Videographer's Resource In addition to the magazine review I did an online video review showing some features of the HMC40 as well as some low light comparisons against the HMC150 as well as the JVC HM100. It is currently at the top of the Newest Show tab or if you view this post at a later time, you can find it under the Von Real tab. You can see the video clip here.
EventDV-TV.com
 
Nice review - particularly the size comparison photo. One addition difference between the two: the HMC150 has internal ND filters that provide an effective f22 minimum aperture, whereas the HMC40 only goes down to f11. Consequently, on a bright day the HMC40 is prone to blowing out highlights if you use it with a fixed shutter of, say, 1/60.
 
Mark thank you for that review.

How do you feel about the image breakup after a certain level of gain on the HMC150 and HMC40. I have read that above 12DB the HMC150 looks very bad while the HMC40 could go up to 24DB and still look pretty good. Now of course pretty good and pretty bad mean different things to all of us. From what I take from your article the HMC40 at 12DB is fairly equal to the HMC150 at 0DB. Since the noise level of the HMC40 is very clean at 12DB wouldn't that make it at least equal to the HMC150 at 0DB? Then wouldn't a HMC40 at 24DB with a small level of noise be at least equal to a HMC150 at 12DB which some have claimed to have a pretty high level of noise? I realize pushing the HMC40 above 24DB really kills the image but isn't that also true of the HMC150 going above 12DB? To me it is the noise level and how clean the image looks that is more important then what gain level the camera is using. I know the HMC150 is more sensitive but I also know the HMC40 has cleaner gain and I was just wondering how much they actually start to balance out

I am about to pull the trigger on a HMC40 although I still find myself considering the HMC150 from time to time. As odd as this may sound I actually prefer the look of CMOS to CCD which is why I have been leaning towards the HMC40. I also always use an on camera light so low light hasn't usually been a huge issue for me as much as it would be for somebody that does not use a light.

Again thank you for the review. It has caused me to pause once again and think about the HMC150 before I take the plunge with the HMC40.
 
Thomas Smet said:
Mark thank you for that review.

How do you feel about the image breakup after a certain level of gain on the HMC150 and HMC40. I have read that above 12DB the HMC150 looks very bad while the HMC40 could go up to 24DB and still look pretty good. Now of course pretty good and pretty bad mean different things to all of us. From what I take from your article the HMC40 at 12DB is fairly equal to the HMC150 at 0DB. Since the noise level of the HMC40 is very clean at 12DB wouldn't that make it at least equal to the HMC150 at 0DB? Then wouldn't a HMC40 at 24DB with a small level of noise be at least equal to a HMC150 at 12DB which some have claimed to have a pretty high level of noise? I realize pushing the HMC40 above 24DB really kills the image but isn't that also true of the HMC150 going above 12DB? To me it is the noise level and how clean the image looks that is more important then what gain level the camera is using. I know the HMC150 is more sensitive but I also know the HMC40 has cleaner gain and I was just wondering how much they actually start to balance out

I am about to pull the trigger on a HMC40 although I still find myself considering the HMC150 from time to time. As odd as this may sound I actually prefer the look of CMOS to CCD which is why I have been leaning towards the HMC40. I also always use an on camera light so low light hasn't usually been a huge issue for me as much as it would be for somebody that does not use a light.

Again thank you for the review. It has caused me to pause once again and think about the HMC150 before I take the plunge with the HMC40.
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trust me the hmc 40 suffers a lot in low light ,gain is bad ,if you can go for the 150 ,i wish i had been able to get it
 
Yeah it would be interesting to see screen-grabs of the HMC40 at 12dB and 24dB vs the HMC150 at 0dB and 12dB.

The numerical dB gain being used really isnt that useful - I did a comparison of the HMC40, Canon HF10 and Sony HC1 recently - the HMC40 used at least a couple more stops gain than the other two, but nevertheless was slightly better than them in low light in terms of the resulting image.
 
Is it possible for a firmware update later on that would help the lowlight weakness of the hmc40? Or even a swap of some mechanism, ID pay a couple hundred if pana can do that? Wishful thinkin huh?
 
I also found it interesting that the JVC HM100 didn't really perform all that much better then the HMC40. The HM100 costs as much as the HMC150 but yet in almost every way other then lack of rolling shutter seems to perform at least equal if not worse then the much cheaper HMC40. Sure native quicktime files may be nice for FCP users but the whole AVCHD to prores is not a bad solution either. Since the JVC does use CCD and I believe native 1280x720 chips I would have expected it to be a bit better in low light. This actually helps the low light of the HMC40 not look so bad. I bet the noise level of the HMC40 is lower then that of the JVC as well when using higher gain levels.
 
Well look at the positive side, there are review stating that the HMC40 has sharpest quality in light than both the cams stated. :)
 
JoeJITSU said:
Is it possible for a firmware update later on that would help the lowlight weakness of the hmc40? Or even a swap of some mechanism, ID pay a couple hundred if pana can do that? Wishful thinkin huh?
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Sadly, no firmware update can fix that issue; it's a limitation of the image sensor. Some user setting can help reduce the impact of the noise, but the settings do NOT solve the basic problem.

About the only thing I can say is wait about 5 to 7 years for an improved model...


Bob Diaz
 
BobDiaz said:
Sadly, no firmware update can fix that issue; it's a limitation of the image sensor. Some user setting can help reduce the impact of the noise, but the settings do NOT solve the basic problem.

About the only thing I can say is wait about 5 to 7 years for an improved model...


Bob Diaz
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for what it is, and the price, i think it is still a pretty decent camera!
just makes you think more about lighting.

all you have to do is be creative when it comes to low light or have a back up camera that behaves good at night
 
Light just like audio can always be added to a camera. Pixels cannot. This is not a bash on the HMC150 which I consider to be an awesome camera. Just saying that if one had to balance the raw detail of the HMC40 and the amazing low light of the HMC150 keep in mind that you can add lights but you cannot add detail. This is why I am slightly leaning towards the HMC40 right now. Again I have no problem with the level of detail of the HMC150 at all.
 
Hi Guys,

Thanks for all of the comments. As far as gain goes, it is so subjective to your own preferences, but this is my personal experience. With my HMC150 I do not hesitate to go to 6dB gain and 9dB is the max I use. While I do not have as much experience with the HMC40, I would shoot at 15-18dB gain on the HMC40 and consider the gain quality to be similar to the HMC150 in the 9-12dB range.

If low light is very important and adding lighting is not an option, you are probably better off with the HMC150. Another area to consider the HMC150 over the HMC40 is if you need a wider angle lens plus the XLR box and a shotgun mic to allow the ability to record one channel of wireless mic and a second channel for ambient sound. By the time you add those three pieces of equipment to the price of an HMC40, you might as well consider the HMC150.

Now if you need a longer lens and you always have plenty of light, then the HMC40 may be the best solution. In that scenario, the HMC40 offers an incredible bang for the buck.
 
Thanks for the review and comparisons, Mark. Having owned and used an HMC40 since October, I agree with both your and Alejo's assessments.

I've found the HMC40 is hard to beat in terms of flexibility and portability for a broad variety of situations, but a wide angle adapter and decent lighting are a must. That said, it works well for my purposes despite the low light gripe.
 
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