HMC40 for wedding videos?
- Thread starter der4
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The first accessory would be a light kit. Kidding aside, you will get some noise from gain when the lights get low. The HMC is a great cam, but it may not be the best for indoor weddings. Any normally lit scene, you will be happy.
Bob posted some night scenes a while back. Search that up and it will give you some ideas.
Bob posted some night scenes a while back. Search that up and it will give you some ideas.
I shoot weddings using the HMC-150 and HMC-40 cameras.
The HMC-40 is not a primary wedding camera. It just does not have the low light and extremely accessable manual controls you need handy to adjust and shoot quickly in low light.
For summer weddings and especially outdoor weddings it's good. The only drawback is the wide end of the lens is not wide at all compared to the HMC-150 and many other cameras.
When fall and winter lighting conditions and all indoor wedding season rolls around, it's not going to be usable.
The HMC-40 is not a primary wedding camera. It just does not have the low light and extremely accessable manual controls you need handy to adjust and shoot quickly in low light.
For summer weddings and especially outdoor weddings it's good. The only drawback is the wide end of the lens is not wide at all compared to the HMC-150 and many other cameras.
When fall and winter lighting conditions and all indoor wedding season rolls around, it's not going to be usable.
Thomas Smet
Veteran
Many moons ago I used to use a Canon XL1 to shoot weddings. Well when I recently bought my new HMC40 the first thing I did was compare it to my XL1. 0DB on the XL1 was pretty much equal to 12DB on the HMC40. Now in terms of numbers this may seem pretty freaky but in reality in terms of noise they are much closer then you would think. The Canon XL1 maxed out at 12DB of gain and it was pretty darn noisy. 24 DB of the HMC40 pretty much matched the brightness to 12 DB on the XL1. Both were noisy of course but pretty equal. I say this because the XL1 has been used for tens of thousands of weddings around the world. Sure it was a bit dark compared to some other cameras but it was used to great success. I personally have shot dozens of weddings with it.
So 12 DB on the HMC40 is going to have a tiny bit more noise then the XL1 at 0 DB but at 24 DB the HMC40 is pretty equal to the XL1 when the gain was maxed out at 12 DB. Now perhaps this still isn't acceptable to some people but it is what it is. Just keep in mind that this level of sensitivity was ok at one point in time. If you down convert to DVD the HMC40 will look even better and I consider the HMC40 down converted at 24DB to look much better then the XL1 at 12DB.
Now perhaps to me this level of camera has always worked well because I always use lights. Good video needs good lighting and ambient lighting just will never do it. There is a good reason why movies look the way they do and it has nothing to do with the framerate or aspect ratio. I would rather see more videographers use cameras like the HMC40 with a good light kit then continue to see people use cameras like the Sony EX1 with no lights at all.
So 12 DB on the HMC40 is going to have a tiny bit more noise then the XL1 at 0 DB but at 24 DB the HMC40 is pretty equal to the XL1 when the gain was maxed out at 12 DB. Now perhaps this still isn't acceptable to some people but it is what it is. Just keep in mind that this level of sensitivity was ok at one point in time. If you down convert to DVD the HMC40 will look even better and I consider the HMC40 down converted at 24DB to look much better then the XL1 at 12DB.
Now perhaps to me this level of camera has always worked well because I always use lights. Good video needs good lighting and ambient lighting just will never do it. There is a good reason why movies look the way they do and it has nothing to do with the framerate or aspect ratio. I would rather see more videographers use cameras like the HMC40 with a good light kit then continue to see people use cameras like the Sony EX1 with no lights at all.
The XL1 (1/3") is a 12 year old camera. I want a little better performance in a current camera than a 12 year old model.
All the latest 1/3" cameras are far more sensitive than the 1/4" HMC-40. If you are going to deliver a wedding video product on par with the rest of the current industry, you need a 1/3" sensor camera or better.
All the latest 1/3" cameras are far more sensitive than the 1/4" HMC-40. If you are going to deliver a wedding video product on par with the rest of the current industry, you need a 1/3" sensor camera or better.
Thomas Smet
Veteran
That is your opinion of course. There are many other aspects to a good high quality wedding video then just low light performance. I do however agree that I wish the HMC40 was a bit better. It is what it is however and while maybe not the best performer I would not say it cannot be done. I used to shoot with 1/2" and 2/3" DVCAM cameras with my XL1 and sure while they beat the pants off of it my XL1 was far from useless.
I think any of us here would say without a doubt that there are better cameras out there for low light shooting. Thats not really the question of the OP however. They just wanted to know if it could be done and the answer is yes. Of course there are better cameras and if they can they should shoot for a camera in the $3500.00 range but I wouldn't totally count the HMC40 out. Personally If the OP is on a budget I would much rather see them use the HMC40 with a good on camera light kit instead of a 1/3" camera with no lights at all.
Thank you for your replies. After doing more research I am actually considering a used hvx200. I am also considering the HMC150. I have $3500 to spend on cameras/lights but wonder if perhaps the hvx200 with lights would be wiser than a HMC150 without lights. Ebay has several HVX200's with P2 cards included for about $2600-$3000. I also want to do event work.
Does it make for sense to go with the HVX200 with lights? I figure I could charge extra if they wanted HD, helping me purchase a firstore.
Does it make for sense to go with the HVX200 with lights? I figure I could charge extra if they wanted HD, helping me purchase a firstore.
Passing on a lesson learned from my own experience:
Your cam will end up being 25% of the cost of your kit. If you reach too far for the cam, you won't have $$ for the other stuff like audio, lights, sticks, luggage, CPU, software, ad infinitum. Of course the cam is the heart and soul of your kit, but the cam is pretty useless without the other stuff. A very basic audio kit for weddings is around $1200 and that is a bare minimum for a wireless unit, an interview and shotgun mic, cables and headphones.
If you are short on $$, P2 workflow, though great, will bust your bank. An HMC150 would be ideal for a wedding shooter but sounds like it would exhaust your budget for just the cam.. It isn't the most modern solution but a used Canon XHA1 can be had pretty cheap, is a good long form HDV cam, and would give you $$ for the extras. If you make a bunch of money, upgrade soon. The extra stuff like stix, lights, and audio are long term investments, cameras come and go pretty quickly.
The original HVX200 isn't a stellar wedding cam, but the faster 200a would be better; ASA and focusing are much improved.
Grant
Your cam will end up being 25% of the cost of your kit. If you reach too far for the cam, you won't have $$ for the other stuff like audio, lights, sticks, luggage, CPU, software, ad infinitum. Of course the cam is the heart and soul of your kit, but the cam is pretty useless without the other stuff. A very basic audio kit for weddings is around $1200 and that is a bare minimum for a wireless unit, an interview and shotgun mic, cables and headphones.
If you are short on $$, P2 workflow, though great, will bust your bank. An HMC150 would be ideal for a wedding shooter but sounds like it would exhaust your budget for just the cam.. It isn't the most modern solution but a used Canon XHA1 can be had pretty cheap, is a good long form HDV cam, and would give you $$ for the extras. If you make a bunch of money, upgrade soon. The extra stuff like stix, lights, and audio are long term investments, cameras come and go pretty quickly.
The original HVX200 isn't a stellar wedding cam, but the faster 200a would be better; ASA and focusing are much improved.
Grant
Thomas Smet
Veteran
You will need a lot of P2 cards for weddings. The HD format used by the HVx200 uses a much higher datarate then the HMC150 so you will need 4x as many P2 cards to shoot an event. I'm not sure how many P2 cards come with the used unit you are looking at but I doubt there are that many included in the price. In my opinion the HMC150 would be a much wiser choice but like was pointed out you are going to be lacking certain other gear that will be very important.
Speaking of low light with the Canon XHA1 I heard it wasn't very good and that it also suffers from high noise when used above 6DB. I wonder how the HMC40 at it's fairly clean 12DB would compare to a Canon HDV camera.
Speaking of low light with the Canon XHA1 I heard it wasn't very good and that it also suffers from high noise when used above 6DB. I wonder how the HMC40 at it's fairly clean 12DB would compare to a Canon HDV camera.
Thank you all for the input! 
I already own a macbook pro with both FCP and Avid. I also have an Adobe software package. I have two wireless audio-technica microphone kits, boom microphone, and a lot of other misc. stuff. The wireless kit is crap. I plan on upgrading as soon as possible.
I decided to go with the HVX200 (NOT "a") as I've used one in the past and really liked it. However, I plan on shooting on tape (SD) or getting a firestorm for HD in the future. I also plan on shooting corporate events, music videos, and my own independent short films.
Basically I have $1000-$1200 left to spend. I plan on purchasing a Libec 38M (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._LS_38M_2A_Professional_2_Stage_Aluminum.html). I've used one in the past and for the price it should be just what I need.
I could rent some accessories for the first couple of weddings. I know I need some kind of steadicam system, lights, and a better microphone kit. How would you spend the $1000-$1200 to get the ball rolling? This is of course referring to my gear budget, not my advertising/business budget. Thanks!
I already own a macbook pro with both FCP and Avid. I also have an Adobe software package. I have two wireless audio-technica microphone kits, boom microphone, and a lot of other misc. stuff. The wireless kit is crap. I plan on upgrading as soon as possible.
I decided to go with the HVX200 (NOT "a") as I've used one in the past and really liked it. However, I plan on shooting on tape (SD) or getting a firestorm for HD in the future. I also plan on shooting corporate events, music videos, and my own independent short films.
Basically I have $1000-$1200 left to spend. I plan on purchasing a Libec 38M (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._LS_38M_2A_Professional_2_Stage_Aluminum.html). I've used one in the past and for the price it should be just what I need.
I could rent some accessories for the first couple of weddings. I know I need some kind of steadicam system, lights, and a better microphone kit. How would you spend the $1000-$1200 to get the ball rolling? This is of course referring to my gear budget, not my advertising/business budget. Thanks!
Thank you all for the input!
Basically I have $1000-$1200 left to spend. I plan on purchasing a Libec 38M (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._LS_38M_2A_Professional_2_Stage_Aluminum.html). I've used one in the past and for the price it should be just what I need.
I could rent some accessories for the first couple of weddings. I know I need some kind of steadicam system, lights, and a better microphone kit. How would you spend the $1000-$1200 to get the ball rolling? This is of course referring to my gear budget, not my advertising/business budget. Thanks!
It would seem that at a max height of only 61", it may be too short. I'd look for a model that has more "reach". Just in case. I use a Bogen 475B, and that will go to about 75". The extra height can be a life saver at times.
Well I pulled the trigger anyway. I've started another thread (in the DSLR section) that may be more relevant to my current situation as I decided against the HMC40. I went with an old HVX200P and a T2i. I realize I spent more money and could have purchased the HMC150 but I liked the idea of two cameras with multiple frame rates etc.
Thank you for all your suggestions.
Thank you for all your suggestions.
Vincent Del Vecchio
Active member
How has the cost of extra P2 cards been?