HMC40 - First Look

Cranky said:
Thanks, Rich. Another question: are there any holes/threads for the handle's screws? I mean, do you think whether I can buy a handle like this from Panasonic and use it with another camcorder that has a standard accessory shoe?
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The handle slides into the shoe on the camera and has 2 screws that firmly attach the handle to the body. I don't think you can retrofit it to another camera very easily.

Cranky said:
Operating manual says that it is possible to switch LCD or viewfinder to B/W. Does peaking switch to B/W too, or you can get color peaking on B/W screen?
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You can only switch the viewfinder the B/W (not the LCD). Peaking (EVF DTL) is just egde enhancement and is not in a selected color (like Canon and JVC). It is helpful for focusing by IMHO not as good as the Canon and JVC implemenation.

Cranky said:
Does the camera show "Auto Mode" or "Manual Mode" on the screen when you change modes? It does so on the TM300, infuriating. For two seconds or so you cannot do anything, Panasonic took this idiotic "feature" from JVC. Also, when you adjust say aperture in auto mode, does it tell you to switch to manual?
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Cranky, I have not used AUTO mode at all, but I just did a little experiment. When you switch modes AUTO MODE or MANUAL appears in the center of the LCD/EVF but you can still start recording or adjust other settings with the text is displayed (it does seem to be there for about 2 seconds). When you try to adjust aperture (IRIS) in full AUTO mode it ignores you (no message) - however, you can adjust focus while in auto and that does move the focus - then auto focus moves the focus back to what it thinks.

I much prefer manual mode on the camera. You can still get it to do every thing automatically in that mode, but you can individually switch things from manual to auto. The only thing you cannot get to work automatically in manual mode is shutter adjustment (and that is the one thing I don't want auto settings to mess with).
 
rich_r said:
I much prefer manual mode on the camera. You can still get it to do every thing automatically in that mode, but you can individually switch things from manual to auto. The only thing you cannot get to work automatically in manual mode is shutter adjustment (and that is the one thing I don't want auto settings to mess with).
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If the HMC40 is anything like the TM300 it is based upon, then you can. Switch to auto, then switch to manual -- everything is auto, including shutter speed. When you change shutter speed manually, it stays, and you cannot switch it back to auto. You need to switch everything to auto with the switch. Though this should not be valuable for you as you don't shoot with auto shutter speed. Me neither.
 
Cranky said:
How chroma is recorded in 1080p30? The manual says that this is not a native progressive mode, it is PsF. The Canons record interlaced chroma in PF30 mode. What about the HMC40?
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I believe this camera records to the same formats the 150 does. The 30p modes are not technically 30p native, but are in 1080i60 and 720p60 containers with flags to treat them as 30p. It would actually be preferred that the interlaced fields' chroma is combined since the fields are coming from the same progressive frame. In 720p mode it only encodes one of every 2 frames to free up bandwidth. Both of these 30p modes work perfect with any software that recognizes the flags properly... programs that don't can have unexpected results.

No built-in editing. Shame. AFAIK, Sony has it. Not sure about Canon. Not sure about Samsung. Simple cut/join editing would be a huge save, because sometimes I forget to stop recording, and record 10 minutes of worthless crap, but I have to keep the clip because it has valuable 5 seconds in the beginning.
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Is that feature available on any h.264 camera? AFAIK, there isn't even any software that can edit AVCHD files without re-encoding or mess them up, though I'm sure we'll see it some day.

I wish it were possible to shoot 24p or 30p at lower bitrates to ease the load on my Sony Vegas.
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Totally, such a bummer the only option is 1080i... I mean most people buy these cameras to stay AWAY from 1080i. Then again, people also get them for the quality high-bitrate and long recording times on cheap SD cards... so I guess its better to have that than not....
 
Cranky said:
If the HMC40 is anything like the TM300 it is based upon, then you can. Switch to auto, then switch to manual -- everything is auto, including shutter speed. When you change shutter speed manually, it stays, and you cannot switch it back to auto. You need to switch everything to auto with the switch.
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Hello all, long time lurker.

I'm curious about this as well. After setting a parameter to manual, is it possible to toggle it back to auto without setting everything else back to auto with it? This is a very bad annoyance on the TM/HS300.
 
NetHead said:
Hello all, long time lurker.

I'm curious about this as well. After setting a parameter to manual, is it possible to toggle it back to auto without setting everything else back to auto with it? This is a very bad annoyance on the TM/HS300.
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You can set WB to auto. You can set iris to auto by re-selecting shutter speed value. The Panasonics are implicitly "shutter priority" cameras.
 
You can put focus or iris into auto or manual individually. So yes, you can set the iris to manual, then press the button again and it'll go to auto, and that has no effect on the manual (or automatic) status of white balance, focus, etc.
 
Cranky said:
You can set iris to auto by re-selecting shutter speed value. The Panasonics are implicitly "shutter priority" cameras.
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Not sure what you mean here -- is that on the TM300 or something?

On the HMC40, you press the iris button once to go to manual, and press it again to go to auto.

The shutter is always operating in manual mode. You go into the touchscreen to change the shutter value.
 
Barry_Green said:
The shutter is always operating in manual mode. You go into the touchscreen to change the shutter value.
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I meant the consumer models. I would expect the HMC40 behaving the same. When you switch from auto to manual, what shutter speed would it set? I suppose it keeps it on auto. When you set it, it is set. Then you adjust the iris.

On consumer Panasonics, when you adjust shutter speed, iris goes to auto (a.k.a. shutter priority mode). On consumer Sonys, adjusting of shutter speed is disabled when aperture/gain is manually selected. I don't know what the HMC40 does in case when one wants to adjust shutter speed with iris locked, are they completely separate of each other?
 
Barry_Green said:
The shutter is always operating in manual mode. You go into the touchscreen to change the shutter value.
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Barry, I think this is only true in manual mode. AUTO mode seems to control everything (including shutter); that's one of the reason's I don't like AUTO mode.
 
I just spent a couple minutes confirming the behavior of auto mode and manual mode.

AUTO - everything is controlled: shutter, iris, white balance, focus

MANUAL - shutter is ONLY manually controlled, iris (aperture) can be controlled automatically or manually (push the iris wheel to switch modes), white balance button switches modes (ATW, ATW Lock, 3.2K preset, 5.6K preset, manual A/B), focus toggles (between manual and auto with the focus button).

The manual mode allows you really nice control or almost full auto on an individual basis. I really like the way the toggles work - the get a lot of utility out of only a few buttons.

A couple more notes:
I don't much care for how the switch between manual A and manual B white balance uses the touch screen.

You have additional focus (and exposure) options using the touch screen and with face detection (only in full auto mode).

And just to confirm - if you go into full AUTO mode then all the settings you had in manual mode are lost.
 
Cranky said:
So, when you switch from auto to manual and open the LCD, what shutter speed does it display? Does this value depend on current lightning?
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I low light (that's all I have right now :smile:) it seems to prefer 1/60 for 1080/60i and 720/60p and it prefers 1/50 for all other modes. Its interesting that it choses 1/50 for the two 30p modes given this is a North America camera I would have thought it would like 1/60 or 1/30.

I'll try tomorrow with more light and see what it does.
 
Another question, how is the transition between stops while on manual iris? On the HS300, there is a noticeable and sudden transition with every step. Is this smoother on the HMC40?
 
Cranky said:
1/6 stop vs 1/4 stop.
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Subjectively, though, is the action of the iris switch such that you could do adjustments "under the radar?" It's one of the things I miss about having a physical ring for aperture.

Thanks for answering our questions, by the way. Very much appreciated.
 
Hmm... this guy claims that the HV is about 2-stop faster than the FX7/V1: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/703544-post5.html

This guy thinks that they about equal, giving an edge to the HV20: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/704125-post9.html

A recent CCInfo review of the HV40 gives the TM300 an edge in 60i, but the HV40 bests it in 24p. In any case, the TM300 (and the HMC40 I presume) has about the same sensitivity as the HV, which is at least as good or better than the FX7/V1. So, the HMC40 is not actually THAT bad?
 
According to Adam Wilt, the V1U clocks in at about 100 ISO. I clock the HMC40 at about 50 to 64, meaning that it's about 2/3 to 1 stop slower than the V1U.

The HV20 I measured at 80 ISO, so it would be 1/3 to 1/4 stop faster/more sensitive than the HMC40. I don't know how the MV40 compres to the HV20.

I sincerely doubt the HV40 could be two stops faster than the V1U, unless the tester was ignoring gain?
 
Shouldn't the lens's maximum aperture also be a major factor when comparing the light sensitivity of various cams? At least for cams with fixed lenses. Is there a significant difference in that area between these cameras, or are they all about the same?
 
i can't find the iso rating to compare myself, but how does the sensitivity of the hmc40 compare to it's predecessor, the dvc30?
 
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