HMC40: Any gripes or grumbles
- Thread starter ggrantly
- Start date
I too am mildly disappointed with the low light levels but that is something that simply seems to be inherent in this size sensor and as such no big deal.
What I was surprised by and almost returned to camcorder because of was the very poor feel of the buttons on the camera. I don't know if mine somehow is worse than others as nobody else seems to have raised the point, but there is absolutely no tactile feedback on the focus assist or focus button. They work .... but seemingly they don't push in one single bit and it, to me, simply feels cheap.
I also am not thrilled about the 2.7" screen. I knew from the specs that it was small, but coupled with the coarse pitch it is harder to tell if you have focus or not. I'd happily have paid more for a better screen had I known before purchase that it would make working with the cam more awkward to the degree that it does.
Am I expecting too much at this price point? Perhaps. However, my feeling, now that I've had a few weeks with the cam, is that I wish I had spent more money for a higher level camera. Not for the IQ but for the little ergonomic touches.
What I was surprised by and almost returned to camcorder because of was the very poor feel of the buttons on the camera. I don't know if mine somehow is worse than others as nobody else seems to have raised the point, but there is absolutely no tactile feedback on the focus assist or focus button. They work .... but seemingly they don't push in one single bit and it, to me, simply feels cheap.
I also am not thrilled about the 2.7" screen. I knew from the specs that it was small, but coupled with the coarse pitch it is harder to tell if you have focus or not. I'd happily have paid more for a better screen had I known before purchase that it would make working with the cam more awkward to the degree that it does.
Am I expecting too much at this price point? Perhaps. However, my feeling, now that I've had a few weeks with the cam, is that I wish I had spent more money for a higher level camera. Not for the IQ but for the little ergonomic touches.
Bic Parker
Active member
Pavel,
I might wonder that perhaps there is a problem with your buttons (they've dead-headed or something). I have a pretty positive tactile feedback with all of the controls on my HCM40 (I would have noticed if I hadn't because I like using my controls blind - i.e., I'm looking in the viewfinder, not the side of my camera). This also includes the focus controls in addition to the side buttons.
I use the focus assist tool a lot because of the smaller view screen. It makes a huge difference.
I've actually been pretty pleased, especially given the price point. Things like the smaller EVF and main viewfinder, I learned were among features often impacted by costs.
In the end, and this is always an issue with ergonomics, what is ergonomic to you (or me) may not be for others, and possibly a lot of others. And I think it would be reasonable to expect several compromises in all of the smaller cams in this class (at least the ones I have seen and tried). It is not a shoulder cam, but it has controls typically found and located as if they were on shoulder cams.
This was one thing I thought about at length before I bought this camera. It has turned out quite well for me, but I did wonder, prior to purchase, about spending $1,500-$2,500 more to get some bit more out of the design. Now I am glad I didn't, but there are certainly some considerations there.
I might wonder that perhaps there is a problem with your buttons (they've dead-headed or something). I have a pretty positive tactile feedback with all of the controls on my HCM40 (I would have noticed if I hadn't because I like using my controls blind - i.e., I'm looking in the viewfinder, not the side of my camera). This also includes the focus controls in addition to the side buttons.
I use the focus assist tool a lot because of the smaller view screen. It makes a huge difference.
I've actually been pretty pleased, especially given the price point. Things like the smaller EVF and main viewfinder, I learned were among features often impacted by costs.
In the end, and this is always an issue with ergonomics, what is ergonomic to you (or me) may not be for others, and possibly a lot of others. And I think it would be reasonable to expect several compromises in all of the smaller cams in this class (at least the ones I have seen and tried). It is not a shoulder cam, but it has controls typically found and located as if they were on shoulder cams.
This was one thing I thought about at length before I bought this camera. It has turned out quite well for me, but I did wonder, prior to purchase, about spending $1,500-$2,500 more to get some bit more out of the design. Now I am glad I didn't, but there are certainly some considerations there.
Robert M Wright
Well-known member
Would you really be happier with the (arguably) better ergonomics of one of the "higher level" cams, along with the notably softer footage coming out of it?
Hmmm. I was thinking that my cams buttons were such that it could not be possible that it was meant to be that way. When I press them - there is no movement, none at all. So I take it that such is not the norm? I wonder if I could send it away to get fixed, but of course I'd like to compare it to another model if I get the chance.
As for being happier with better ergonomic at the expense of some clarity - yes, absolutely I would make that trade off. I'm a photographer by proffesion and this is something that my employer wants as a adjunct and all the footage will wind up on the web. So, like with SLR bodies where I don't care about the Nth degree of IQ, where I'd rather have a zen like flow with the gear, I would make that trade off.
I imaging that may not be the norm, but then we all make trade offs one being the light gathering ability of small sensor cams. Now mind you, other than the buttons (which may be abnormal in my case) I think this is a really good piece of gear - but at the same time there are, as there always are; nits to be picked. Those are mine.
As for being happier with better ergonomic at the expense of some clarity - yes, absolutely I would make that trade off. I'm a photographer by proffesion and this is something that my employer wants as a adjunct and all the footage will wind up on the web. So, like with SLR bodies where I don't care about the Nth degree of IQ, where I'd rather have a zen like flow with the gear, I would make that trade off.
I imaging that may not be the norm, but then we all make trade offs one being the light gathering ability of small sensor cams. Now mind you, other than the buttons (which may be abnormal in my case) I think this is a really good piece of gear - but at the same time there are, as there always are; nits to be picked. Those are mine.
well, i think there is no perfect piece of equipment and i guarantee you that someone out here is complaining about the RED not having this or that...even 60,000$ machines will have someone complaining about them.Now mind you, other than the buttons (which may be abnormal in my case) I think this is a really good piece of gear - but at the same time there are, as there always are; nits to be picked. Those are mine.
i like your philosophy that trade offs have to be made, specially at this price. i think everyone can agree that, for the HMC40, being what it is, is a wonderful piece of equipment. there will always be HATERS and LOVERS...that's just life.
droliff
Active member
new to HMC40
new to HMC40
Hi all,
I am relatively new to the video scene. I am a commercial/editorial still photographer (for the past 29 years) and have done some sparse amounts of video in the past several years (with a Sony TRV310, mostly for web usage). Due to some recent opportunities and the desire to increase the services that I offer to clientele, I am making more of a push into the digital video scene. I've done a lot of research over the past several months on the best dv solution for a modest budget (3K or so). The overwhelming opinion was HD camera and tapeless workflow. I had several video pros recommend the HMC40 and recently had an opportunity to obtain an almost brand new (7 hours of 'ON' time) HMC40 and extra 5800 MA battery for 1600.00.
I was a bit shocked at the 'build' when I received the camera. I am used to having a solidly built magnesium alloy body still camera in my hands (Nikon D700). My initial reaction to the HMC40 was that it felt like a plastic toy. I realize that image quality should probably be the main marker by which you judge a camera so I am slowly working my way past the initial reaction.
Best,
Dennis
Dennis Roliff Photography
new to HMC40
Hi all,
I am relatively new to the video scene. I am a commercial/editorial still photographer (for the past 29 years) and have done some sparse amounts of video in the past several years (with a Sony TRV310, mostly for web usage). Due to some recent opportunities and the desire to increase the services that I offer to clientele, I am making more of a push into the digital video scene. I've done a lot of research over the past several months on the best dv solution for a modest budget (3K or so). The overwhelming opinion was HD camera and tapeless workflow. I had several video pros recommend the HMC40 and recently had an opportunity to obtain an almost brand new (7 hours of 'ON' time) HMC40 and extra 5800 MA battery for 1600.00.
I was a bit shocked at the 'build' when I received the camera. I am used to having a solidly built magnesium alloy body still camera in my hands (Nikon D700). My initial reaction to the HMC40 was that it felt like a plastic toy. I realize that image quality should probably be the main marker by which you judge a camera so I am slowly working my way past the initial reaction.
Best,
Dennis
Dennis Roliff Photography
Barry_Green
Moderator
The larger models (DVX100, HMC150, etc) are magnesium alloy. The HMC40 is carbon fiber.
Ok, yeah, it's pretty goofy. Canon's done it better, but this isn't actually bad for Panasonic. And some companies, particularly CE-oriented companies, are just horrible at providing any online support.
While I did have to figure out the non-intutive places they put things, and re-login ever other time (someone ought to send the Webmaster a tutorial on cookies), I did find everything I needed. And while they didn't have an online authorization code for Neo 2 (not sure I'll ever use it, but hey, free is free), they emailed me one within 12 hours, which is pretty good. All the PDFs are there, and there's even a place for firmware updates, should that be an issue.
Keep in mind I have only had the camera for 4 days... But, if you are used to the larger ENG cams, and the accessibility of the manual controls, the 40 can be a little hard to get used to. The view finder is small, and I don't really care for the touch screen menus.
Having said that, I have not had ample time to actually work with the camera and adapt to its smaller form. I purchased this for those times when I need a smaller camera, and also to use as a point n shoot for family things. So for the price, and the little experience I have with it, I am really happy with it.
Having said that, I have not had ample time to actually work with the camera and adapt to its smaller form. I purchased this for those times when I need a smaller camera, and also to use as a point n shoot for family things. So for the price, and the little experience I have with it, I am really happy with it.
Hmmm. I was thinking that my cams buttons were such that it could not be possible that it was meant to be that way. When I press them - there is no movement, none at all. So I take it that such is not the norm? I wonder if I could send it away to get fixed, but of course I'd like to compare it to another model if I get the chance.
As for being happier with better ergonomic at the expense of some clarity - yes, absolutely I would make that trade off. I'm a photographer by proffesion and this is something that my employer wants as a adjunct and all the footage will wind up on the web. So, like with SLR bodies where I don't care about the Nth degree of IQ, where I'd rather have a zen like flow with the gear, I would make that trade off.
I imaging that may not be the norm, but then we all make trade offs one being the light gathering ability of small sensor cams. Now mind you, other than the buttons (which may be abnormal in my case) I think this is a really good piece of gear - but at the same time there are, as there always are; nits to be picked. Those are mine.
my user buttons dont really push in at all ha.
didnt notice it till i pushed them when the camera was off ha.
also the only thing i kinda hate is when im filming (i have user button 2 as delete last clip i film alot of skateboarding and thats probably the most helpful thing everrr!) but if i delete last clip and im just looking though the viewfinder i always have to open the lcd and push the touch screen then close it and back to filming with the viewfinder
My biggest problem with the HMC40 is that the Focus Edge Sharpening (or whatever it's called... all I know is that I have it set to User Button 1 and I always use it) only works if you push a button. I'd kill for a firmware update that would allow it to be always on, always off, or available at a button press, because I'd love to have Button 1 freed up for something else.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Agreed on that one, that's been my biggest gripe about the HMC40 since it was introduced. In essence, it means you have two programmable user buttons, which isn't the worst thing in the world, but it is an annoyance.
little bobby
Well-known member
Same with me. I love how you can rotate the HVX eye cup. That and I think the resolution of the EVF is quite terrible.
The other thing that bugs me is the hiss from the XLR adapter. Some say it isn't present, but on the 4 HMCs we have that all use adapters, the hiss is present. Luckily, I have been able to get rid of most of the hiss using Soundtrack Pro but it still hurts the quality of the person speaking on camera. I don't know if this is an HMC 40 problem or an adapter problem. Either way, its added another step in finalizing my daily video projects that has become quite annoying.
HEY!, I started this thread a year ago January just before I bought my HMC-40. After having the HMC for over a year I have really only a few gripes of consequence, and low light capability isn't one of them.
The cam needs more ND. On a bright day, if you crank the iris-nd thingy closed, past the max possible ND, then the iris closes down, and soon enough, you have a soft image.
The IQ of the flip out LCD and the VF could be better. I find it a bit tough to get perfect focus. As I learn the cam more each time I shoot with it, this is getting better, but always seems like a challenge.
The menu system is a little clunky. It works, everything you need is there, but it seems like the designers didn't flow chart the system for the user. Maybe others love it....
Now the good:
IQ. Did I say the IQ is good. For the price and size, it would be hard to imagine anything better, though there is lots of new stuff out.
Size and weight. I can load this cam and a bunch of accessories in a sling pack without feeling like a pack mule. I use a monopod for a walking stick.
Panny mojo is there. After a good scene file matching session, I can use the HMC as a B-Cam to my 170.
Runs forever on a battery.
I find the OIS works really well
Grant
The cam needs more ND. On a bright day, if you crank the iris-nd thingy closed, past the max possible ND, then the iris closes down, and soon enough, you have a soft image.
The IQ of the flip out LCD and the VF could be better. I find it a bit tough to get perfect focus. As I learn the cam more each time I shoot with it, this is getting better, but always seems like a challenge.
The menu system is a little clunky. It works, everything you need is there, but it seems like the designers didn't flow chart the system for the user. Maybe others love it....
Now the good:
IQ. Did I say the IQ is good. For the price and size, it would be hard to imagine anything better, though there is lots of new stuff out.
Size and weight. I can load this cam and a bunch of accessories in a sling pack without feeling like a pack mule. I use a monopod for a walking stick.
Panny mojo is there. After a good scene file matching session, I can use the HMC as a B-Cam to my 170.
Runs forever on a battery.
I find the OIS works really well
Grant
Thomas Smet
Veteran
I have two main issues with my HMC-40 that would otherwise make it a perfect camera.
1. The thing is way too light. Even on a shoulder brace the thing shakes very easy. Tripod shooting is great but everything else is tough. I was in South Africa again recently and I had the hardest time trying to shoot handheld.
2. Low light of course. I usually try to use lights when I shoot but again when I was in Africa sometimes it isn't always possible. The HMC-40 is one heck of a camera but as soon as the light goes down it falls apart, fast.
A few minor issues.
1. Focus and white balance are in the front of the camera which makes them very hard to see when the LCD is flipped out. Kind of hard to use unless you are on a tripod. At least they made the surface texture a bit different on each one so I can usually feel my way around them but in a rush that doesn't always work.
2. ND filter sucks. It is kind of ironic that the HMC-40 sucks in low light but also kind of sucks is super bright light as well unless you add an extra ND filter.
3. I really wish the gain was separate from the iris. It isn't a big deal of course just a little odd.
4. I really wish the gain limit could be set to 15DB and 18DB. Sometimes 12DB isn't enough but 24DB is way too much.
1. The thing is way too light. Even on a shoulder brace the thing shakes very easy. Tripod shooting is great but everything else is tough. I was in South Africa again recently and I had the hardest time trying to shoot handheld.
2. Low light of course. I usually try to use lights when I shoot but again when I was in Africa sometimes it isn't always possible. The HMC-40 is one heck of a camera but as soon as the light goes down it falls apart, fast.
A few minor issues.
1. Focus and white balance are in the front of the camera which makes them very hard to see when the LCD is flipped out. Kind of hard to use unless you are on a tripod. At least they made the surface texture a bit different on each one so I can usually feel my way around them but in a rush that doesn't always work.
2. ND filter sucks. It is kind of ironic that the HMC-40 sucks in low light but also kind of sucks is super bright light as well unless you add an extra ND filter.
3. I really wish the gain was separate from the iris. It isn't a big deal of course just a little odd.
4. I really wish the gain limit could be set to 15DB and 18DB. Sometimes 12DB isn't enough but 24DB is way too much.
Denniscasey
Well-known member
PASS Site
PASS Site
On the subject of PASS site, maybe it is just a PR move, but a Panasonic Japanese HQ person has replied several times to comments I made about PASS site on the questionaire I got when I registered HMC40. I said the PASS site was somewhat difficult to navigate and seemed redundent in some of the log-in and password requirements/procedures. Japan HQ person has been thanking me for comments and asking if my concern was mostly the Japanese/English "language" or if my concern was website design. I replied mostly design of site.
Again, after a short time using HMC40 the EVF is my major concern since it does not give a very good representation of shot itself, but as others have replied if I just trust the camera I have so far come away with great shots when I later view them on TV. Dennis
PASS Site
On the subject of PASS site, maybe it is just a PR move, but a Panasonic Japanese HQ person has replied several times to comments I made about PASS site on the questionaire I got when I registered HMC40. I said the PASS site was somewhat difficult to navigate and seemed redundent in some of the log-in and password requirements/procedures. Japan HQ person has been thanking me for comments and asking if my concern was mostly the Japanese/English "language" or if my concern was website design. I replied mostly design of site.
Again, after a short time using HMC40 the EVF is my major concern since it does not give a very good representation of shot itself, but as others have replied if I just trust the camera I have so far come away with great shots when I later view them on TV. Dennis
Felipe Henao
Well-known member
In my opinion the camera is perfect for a 1/4 chip where you want a lot of depth of field, cine scenes are great, build is very good, PASS is a great service
image is great with light, and even fairly low light situations, then I use either Manfrotto leds or LOWEL DP and Omni.
There are images you just can't achieve with this camera, like Extreme contrasty images, since dynamic range is around 7 to 8 stops with cine scenes,
Also if I want a limited depth of field requires distance, or if you want a noiseless dark image with available ligh ( Neat video a noise plug in does a great job ).
THEN you have to have an AF100 or in the low end a HDSLR camera, like the Panasonic GH2, with big sensor, and 11-12 stops dynamic range.
This HDSLR cameras also have many limitations, and that is when I use my lovely HMC40.
IN OTHER WORDS if you want to be able to cover any situation, you have to carry 2 cameras ( at least ) The HMC40 and a HDSLR, and that is the minimum.
I have to accept that HDSLR are still loaded with problems, but you have to work them out
Forgot to mention the great advantage from my HMC40 of continuous zoom and autofocus, Lanc control, headphones
IN OTHER WORDS A PROPER VIDEO CAMERA
image is great with light, and even fairly low light situations, then I use either Manfrotto leds or LOWEL DP and Omni.
There are images you just can't achieve with this camera, like Extreme contrasty images, since dynamic range is around 7 to 8 stops with cine scenes,
Also if I want a limited depth of field requires distance, or if you want a noiseless dark image with available ligh ( Neat video a noise plug in does a great job ).
THEN you have to have an AF100 or in the low end a HDSLR camera, like the Panasonic GH2, with big sensor, and 11-12 stops dynamic range.
This HDSLR cameras also have many limitations, and that is when I use my lovely HMC40.
IN OTHER WORDS if you want to be able to cover any situation, you have to carry 2 cameras ( at least ) The HMC40 and a HDSLR, and that is the minimum.
I have to accept that HDSLR are still loaded with problems, but you have to work them out
Forgot to mention the great advantage from my HMC40 of continuous zoom and autofocus, Lanc control, headphones
IN OTHER WORDS A PROPER VIDEO CAMERA
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