HMC150 w/Letus v Canon 7d Question

M

michigan

Active member
UPDATE Feb 25, 2010

http://vimeo.com/9738670

Link to HMC150 Letus Elite vs. Canon 7D

 UPDATE March 4, 2010 1100 pm Eastern----------------------------

Added 1:40 to front of clip to illustrate well lit differences. The balance of the video is unchanged.

While the 7D did very well in low light, the HMC with it's built in ND Filters make it very easy to maintain a low f-stop to achieve a shallow depth of field in well lit situations. This being said, I did not use the HMC's filters because I do not have filters for the 7D and I tried to compare them on a level playing field. Without external, add-on filters, the 7D is limited to very high f-stop settings or the need to significantly increase the shutter speed to bring the light levels down to usable levels.

The original test, mainly in low light settings, highlighted the strong points of the 7D and weak points of the HMC150. The added clips help illustrate what a great camera the HMC150 really is.

I believe both cameras are excellent in their own right, but together they provide a great double punch for the well lit and not so well lit settings.






Technically speaking, which will provide the greatest quality file a Canon 7D or the HMC150 w/Letus Ultimate (Nikon lenses)?

Without the Letus Adapter, I think there is no question, but if the final product was intended to be blown up, which would you go with and why?

I've owned my HMC and Letus for a while and love the look. Recently I purchased the 7D and think it is a great camera. I realize the rolling shutter and audio issues. I have only a basic understanding of the CCD/CMOS sensors. My gut would tell me the HMCs 3 1/3 CCDs with the Letus would be superior to the single CMOS of the 7D, but I do not know that and am looking for your expertise.

Thanks,

Doug
 
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MadHMC150 said:
SO you own both and you asking us?

Lets see some side by side!
Click to expand...

Yes, that is right. Sure, I have seen both on my computer screen and TV, but being quite the novice, they look similar. I don't know what I don't know and did not know if there is a someone with a technical answer.

This being said, I would be happy to do a side by side for you to judge. I am out of town til Sunday afternoon, so I can't shoot til then. I would appreciate input as to what would be most beneficial in a side by side (settings, render format, shot types, etc.) I would assume I should transcode both with Neoscene, no color correction, standard/file camera settings.

Let me know and I will get it done.

Regards,

Doug
 
Yeah, it would be great if you could transcode both to cineform. I'd be curious to see differential in grain and stuff.

Would you be using the same prime lenses on both the 7D and the HMC?
 
michigan said:
Yes, that is right. Sure, I have seen both on my computer screen and TV, but being quite the novice, they look similar. I don't know what I don't know and did not know if there is a someone with a technical answer.

This being said, I would be happy to do a side by side for you to judge. I am out of town til Sunday afternoon, so I can't shoot til then. I would appreciate input as to what would be most beneficial in a side by side (settings, render format, shot types, etc.) I would assume I should transcode both with Neoscene, no color correction, standard/file camera settings.

Let me know and I will get it done.

Regards,

Doug
Click to expand...

It is interesting to know that a novice eye cant spot a difference. Most likely the a client will say the same thing.

I know we will find a lot to say once there is some side by side.

As far as shots, others might have some better ideas. But at least get some outside, inside, low light, and high contrast (outside & inside).
 
ikander said:
Yeah, it would be great if you could transcode both to cineform. I'd be curious to see differential in grain and stuff.

Would you be using the same prime lenses on both the 7D and the HMC?
Click to expand...

Lenses- I had planned on using the 18-135mm Canon lens and different prime lenses on the HMC that would be comparable. Due to the crop factor of the 7D a 50mm lens on the 7D is more like an 85mm.

I guess it probably makes more sense to use the same lenses and take it for what its worth.
1080 24p / 48fps?

Let me know your thoughts..


 
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michigan said:
Technically speaking, which will provide the greatest quality file a Canon 7D or the HMC150 w/Letus Ultimate (Nikon lenses)?
Click to expand...


The Letus creates a "faux" full frame 35mm sensor from which your HMC150 records with it's 3CCD sensors. As the HMC150 is a camera from the broadcast division of Panasonic -- in theory, in theory, the AVCHD stream it records is suitable for professional applications.

The 7D is a single chip CMOS with an APS-C sensor (smaller than full frame 35mm) that, to my knowledge, was not released by a pro broadcast division and was not designed for broadcast applications.

Would I prefer the 7D to other video DSLR cameras? Absolutely. Frankly, I'm enchanted by the new consumer Canon (Rebel T2i) that costs half the money of the 7D but offers the same video capabilities as the 7D.

Would I prefer the 7D over the HMC150/Letus combo for a production geared for PBS distribution? No. Hell no. In fact, for the four hour interview stuff -- we used exactly the HMC150/Letus combo to achieve results that made everyone happy -- and the cuts between that footage and the HPX170/Letus footage were entirely, entirely, indistinguishable.
 
michigan said:
Lenses- I had planned on using the 18-135mm Canon lens and different prime lenses on the HMC that would be comparable. Due to the crop factor of the 7D a 50mm lens on the 7D is more like an 85mm.

I guess it probably makes more sense to use the same lenses and take it for what its worth.
1080 24p / 48fps?

Let me know your thoughts..


Click to expand...

The thing to do would be to set up your HMC zoomed into the GG so as to get an APS-C area recorded, unless that creates problems.

If it doesn't, then it would make for the same optical behavior and it would be better in terms of getting the taking lens IQ out of the equation.

If you can still focus properly then I would assume the only downside to that setup of your HMC + Letus would be a small loss of HMC lens speed. The real worry would be that DoF on the HMC would be too thin to ensure a sharp recording of the GG at such close focus.

Someone with lots of adapter and specific Letus experience please chime in to corroborate this.
 
USLatin said:
The thing to do would be to set up your HMC zoomed into the GG so as to get an APS-C area recorded, unless that creates problems.
Click to expand...


I considered this, but thought the greater the zoom on the GG, the greater the loss of quality to the HMC image.

Does this make sense, or am I mistaken (wouldn't be the first time).

Thanks,

Doug
 
Can you get sharp focus? The only thing that would really make your lens perform better or worse is aperture, which BTW you should close down a tad for this test IMO, to test for the best case scenario. You might lose a bit of light by zooming in but not much at all. Zooming in could make it impossible for you to focus close enough though. You could also get too narrow DoF and be able to focus almost close enough, but end up with a GG that really isn't in focus all the way. Just try it!

I am not sure how to figure out the zoom setting for the APS-C area though. Maybe Barry could come to the rescue on this one?

Someone turn on the Barry-Signal!

barry_signal.jpg

barry_signal.jpg
 
As for setting the framing the same -- easiest way to do that is to frame up a shot on the SLR and get an exact reference for what is exactly on the leftmost edge and the rightmost edge, and then when you have a completely repeatable circumstance, substitute in the HMC150/Letus with the exact same lens in the exact same position and use the zoom to frame it up so that you get exactly equivalent framing.

But make sure you set the ground glass focus perfectly on the Letus.
 
Oh yea... probably best to use something like a sheet of paper and mark it so you have very accurate corner guides. And make sure the lens is in the same position, not the camera, right?

I hope you found the graphic funny Barry. I did it with the best intentions in mind. : )
 
The 'bat signal' was pretty awesome... :)

And yes, seeing as you're talking about using the exact same lens, you'd position the lens in the exact same position.
 
I am looking forward to this shoot-out myself.

I have both the Canon 7d and HMC-150 however I don't have a 35mm adapter yet.

Though after this test, maybe I will think about getting it for the HMC-150 which I think is a GREAT camera.

Simon
 
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