HMC "pin" noise ??

FarCountry

FarCountry

Member
Can anyone help me sort out what this noise is? I am not sure what else to call this noise that I am seeing other than pin noise. It is like fine snow, and I am getting it all over my image. I have put a sample up on vimeo that shows this pretty well. I had to crop to remove part of the image I can't share on-line right now. I am really seeing this noise evident in this shot in the brown siding on the building. I am doing all my editing in ProRes 422. It really shows even more when I export to DVCPro50 (NTSC).

You probably need to hit the expand to full screen button in the lower right of the vimeo player for this to show up well. The clip is only 30 seconds, so only takes a quick look.

The link is :http://www.vimeo.com/7790424

This was recorded at 1080p30, with the following scene file settings:

Detail=0
V. Detail=0
Detail Coring = 0
Chroma Level= +3
Master Ped=0
Gamma=High
Knee=Mid
Matrix=Norm1

Any Ideas on why I am getting so much of this fine noise, even in a well lit scene? I see this when viewing before compression to H.264, so I do not think that export or compression are the source. Also, I viewed the clips right from the camera on my Toshiba HDTV via HDMI and the same noise shows there as well.
 
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I dunno...Is that noise?

Have you turned the gain up by accident?

Perhaps a slight blur will hide it a bit but i don't think most people will notice it.
 
The gain was definitely off on that. I don't know if it is really noise, but it looks like it to me. It sure is not as clean as I would expect. Maybe in a dimly lit scene, but not in sunlight. I recall having an ND filter on during that shot as well.
 
Yes, I did use the ND filter. I don't recall which setting, but I was using it. So is the consensus that this is normal image quality from the HMC150?
 
Does anyone else get noise like this? Here is a screen grab, but it it much easier to see (unfortunatey) on the video sample linked at the top of this thread. You can see the noise on the brown siding in this.

1259341198.jpg

album.php
 
This is why I hate my HMC, everyone says the noise isn't there, But I swear against them, It looks terrible
 
Compression makes it a little worse, but it is fully apparent watching right from the camera on my HDTV thru HDMI (i.e. the native clips played from the camera). This is not a bash on the camera. I am looking to see what others are getting, and if there is a way to reduce this. The quality in this regard is disappointing, and surprising. I expect that there may be some ways to reduce this. I am going to do some testing with the detail and coring turned all the way down and see if it helps any.
 
Hmmm... I don't get that at all (except in poor light with increased gain). Interesting. One thing to try is turning the coring up a little... but I don't know that you should be seeing that at all. I always keep the Matrix on Cinema like, and the gamma to one of the Cine's or B-Press. I don't know if that would have an effect. If not, you might try contacting Panasonic, it's always possible you got a bum camera.
 
have you tried resetting the camera? this was a solution to a noisy camera back when it was first released.i forget who the user was on here but they complained of constant noise and sent their 150 to panasonic. they checked it out and did a simple reset of the settings in the menu and it solved the issue.
Go to the OtherFunctions screen in the menu and then Menu Init.. This will reset all scene fies and user settings. Give it a try and see if it helps.
 
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Good idea. I also need to set up a side-by-side with both of my HMC 150s and compare results from both. Does anyone have any ideas on a good setup to shoot? What sort of subject, lighting, distance from the camera, etc?
 
Any luck on this issue FarCountry? I think i am experiencing the same thing. It is almost like there is noise in the shot similar to what having the gain up would produce. I have been having to use the Neat Video Noise reduction plug-in to get a cleaner looking shot. Thanks
 
FarCountry said:
Good idea. I also need to set up a side-by-side with both of my HMC 150s and compare results from both. Does anyone have any ideas on a good setup to shoot? What sort of subject, lighting, distance from the camera, etc?
Click to expand...
Maybe You could get a color chart and a resolution chart
 
I have tried that and I stiil am getting noise, I did a black balance as well as I have read that can help. Hmm.

I will post a link to sample video of this as soon as vimeo is finished uploading it.

All in all I just wanna know if there is an issue with my camera or what I am seeing is normal.

Thanks for your help.
 
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What are you viewing your footage on? My Dell LCD for example displays terrible video with tons of noise. Our cheapo LCD TV looks much better.
 
It's just noise... Just noise. It's the noise I've already grown accustomed to and duh! it's different from the noise when you shoot on mini DV. I think your camera is fine and you just have to suck on it. Besides, the in house experts who usually replies are all numb about it.

I think this is what you get with AVCHD compression. Go down there again and physically check to see if there are thin lines along the brown panels of the building wall. Shooting HD usually gives us sharper images and in this case, perhaps the camera was trying to define the thin uniformed lines along the wall of the structure. It's trying to define the image (in this case the thin lines which we don't necessarily need to see (how can your eye tell your camera that?) as it interpolates the pixels through the many frames it is capturing. The results is a mixture of "confused" pixels in the moving frames, smearing black and grey and white noise together with the primary brown image. Similar type of noise when you shoot with the DRS on. Therefore, you might want a smart camera that knows what you want or don't want to see although I find it too ridiculously perfect and meticulous for a prosumer HD camera to know everything.

Lastly, don't take my word seriously. I'm no expert in this... just a shooter who doesn't have a perfect eye when it comes to video images. Maybe film.
 
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