Hive releasing “Super Hornet 575-C” @ CineGear

Bern Caughey

Bern Caughey

Veteran
Just got an email from Hive mentioning they’re releasing a “Super Hornet 575-C” at CineGear. Couldn’t find much information about the new light except that a prototype was shown at NAB.

As part of his “NAB Journal” Phil Holland wrote on REDuser, “The Super Hornet is a whole lot more light and does indeed work a bit different than the rest of the series as you are required to use a ballast and that's where the controls are. This makes this series a whole family and one of the few hard source RGB lights out there worth using”.

He also posted a photo of the Super Hornet’s head.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...Journal-2019&p=1851147&viewfull=1#post1851147

Anyone know more details?
 
Received the email earlier today and saw the mention at NAB. Didn't know about the controls being on the ballast. I wish the power supplies were integrated into the lights. That's still one of the big things that I don't like about LED's, so may use separate power supplies, which slows set-up and tear-down and makes it kind of a mess, instead of just plugging it in and rocking and rolling.
 
Seems comparable to a Joker 800 but with RGB, probably cheaper, and all the other benefits of LED. Don’t know how much the ballast weighs but looks like it’s lighter than say a Mole Fresnel of similar power, and the Moles don’t have RGB. HMIs have separate ballasts, so it’s not like LEDs are making things worse, though I agree I prefer an integrated ballast like the Gemini or Space X. Can’t really compare this to say a 650w Tungsten Fresnel as this is way more light.

Couple this with the Creamsource Space X and you’d have an M12 or M18 replacement and Joker 800 replacement but with all the benefits of LED. Looks great to me.
 
Liam Hall said:
Looks great. But at $5,200 US it's out of my price range.
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Yep. Even at the 10% off offer I received for being an existing customer, if I pre-ordered before Friday, they're still pricey.

I own two 100-C's and two 200-C's and there's no doubt these will be nice since they will have even more punch(they are apparently calling it 575, because it's supposed to be equal to a 575 HMI), but at roughly $10.5K for a set(I like to buy my lights in pairs), I'm not sure they would be a wise purchase for me right now, at that price(notice I did not say invest, as so many do. Purchasing equipment is not an investment). If they were $2,500-$3K, they would be much more attractive.

I'd also like to see them make the effects control from the app free, instead of charging like $20 for that privilege. Along with the color coordinate/maping tool. And another ides, give us color correction control(new +/- green and straw they just added to the firmware) from the app, as well.
 
I checked it out at their booth, of course, not really a setup to judge any output, just a way to gets some hands on with the light. They make very nice instruments but these days, the market for $5,200.00 lights is shrinking pretty quickly.
There will always be a few who are willing to pay for the best but the Aputure exhibit was like Times Square versus a few crickets and tumbleweeds blowing by at the Hive booth and the Hive booth had a better location, right in the main doors as you walked into their hall.

Not sure if the average production person will pay high end HMI prices for any smaller RGB LEDs anymore when there are so many interesting instruments at half the cost. Also, after owning several RGB LEDs I have came to the conclusion that for my DP
work, I only need one or two RGB LED sources. Every source doesn't need to be an RGB LED and honestly, every source doesn't need to even be bi-color. It's nice to have a mix but all I use RGBs for is color washes on BGs, sofits and table top. If I own ten
LED instruments, only one or two need to be RGB for my needs, whereas walking around at CineGear, you'd think that any none RGB LED is hopelessly outdated junk that nobody should be using in 2019 ;-)

Same with the EFX modes on these things, I can't think of anything more useless to 98% of filmmakers, DPs and gaffers than EFX mode. Notice the theme of "innovation" is kind of stalled in LED lighting like it is with cameras? To me, innovation in LED would be more powerful, smaller, yet less heat generating fresnels with small size, integrated power supplies, borosilicate (not plastic) fresnel lenses that can make identical looking cuts as tungsten fresnels with barndoors. And make these at a reasonable cost with somewhat comparable photometrics for the dollar as an Arri 650. I wrote this two years ago and it still stands, there are no reasonable cost, high quality, rugged, powerful small, all purpose LED fresnels that dont's cost triple, quadruple or even more than an Arri 650 fresnel does that can make the same kinds of cuts at even a remotely similar price. In my mind, LED fresnels have been one step forward (low power consumption, low heat) and two steps back (EXPENSIVE, not great output, terrible quality of light and cuts, fragile and did I mention expensive?) from where we've been the past thirty years.

I only have one super rugged LED and it's a cheap one, that I am not worried about if it will still fuction if it falls off of table onto a concrete floor or off of my Rock & Roller cart into the sidewalk that's my Nanguang RGB-88, it's built like 2X4 and I could definitely wield it as a staff-like weapon in battle, do combat with it and it would still function fine. Other than that, most other LED sources feel like computers attached to LEDs perched precariously on a light stand and if the instrument falls to the ground, it will literally splinter into pieces. Mitigating this effect would also be termed true innovation. It feels like we are there as far as good output, power efficiency, good TLCI/color accuracy. Now can we concentrate on building these types of LED sources to be as reliable as what we've used for the past three decades? Is that too much to ask? Oh, and cost too. An Arri 650 is $493.00. So even taking into account say Bi-color and greater power efficiency, where's my $600.00 LED fresnel that can give me the same output, reliability and cuts as my 650s sitting in their cases?

Of course, if I owned a grip and lighting truck, I would load up on them because you have to be ready for anything the client calls for. I guess it all just depends on the type of shoots you do?
 
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puredrifting said:
Same with the EFX modes on these things, I can't think of anything more useless to 98% of filmmakers, DPs and gaffers than EFX mode.
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Yep. I have lighting effects on two Gemini's and four Hive's and I've never used any of them on a real shoot. I can see some of them being used on specialty shots, like some posed, stylistic stuff, but for the majority and majority of what they/us do, no. It will be a KOLD day in hell before I give Hive $20 to be able to trigger these effects from their control app.

And yes, the days of paying that much for a single light like that are numbered. If it was equivalent to something like a 1200w HMI(and aimed as such)... Yeah.

Hive did improve the "white light" capabilities of their lights last year with their v2 firmware and the color profiles they added, but I'm usually using their lights for accent and/or color, not keys. For $5,200 I'm buying a light to light people with a lot of quality light and I just don't see this as that "magic key".
 
Run&Gun said:
Yep. I have lighting effects on two Gemini's and four Hive's and I've never used any of them on a real shoot. I can see some of them being used on specialty shots, like some posed, stylistic stuff, but for the majority and majority of what they/us do, no. It will be a KOLD day in hell before I give Hive $20 to be able to trigger these effects from their control app.

And yes, the days of paying that much for a single light like that are numbered. If it was equivalent to something like a 1200w HMI(and aimed as such)... Yeah.

Hive did improve the "white light" capabilities of their lights last year with their v2 firmware and the color profiles they added, but I'm usually using their lights for accent and/or color, not keys. For $5,200 I'm buying a light to light people with a lot of quality light and I just don't see this as that "magic key".
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Exactly, I love their lights, they are well made, innovative and work great. But that pesky value equation always rears it's head.
The market for $5k and $6k lights are pretty much professional gaffers with trucks and they still buy a LOT of Arri, still keeping their HMIs working and have LEDs all over the place,
of course but that's a good chunk of change for what you can actually do with the instrument, especially for an accent or BG light.
 
This is close to a Joker replacement and the need for lights as bright as a Joker has not gone away. What other LED is offering what this Hive offers at this price point and weight? The Aperture 300D is only around $1k, but it's half the power and doesn't have RGB or Wifi control.

I don't get this talk of, "$6k is too much to spend on a light in these changing times." A Joker 800 still costs $6k and there are no cheap LEDs out there which can really compare. What has really changed? If anything, lights have gotten more expensive and people are paying these higher prices for the various benefits they offer. We used to use something like an Arri Arrilite 750 open faces as a key, for example, which only costs $450, and now many people are spending $1k on a 1x1 or $3k-$6k on a Gemini or Skypanel. So, I'd argue lighting has gotten more expensive and people are willing to pay the prices.

I think if you just need a soft light then go with a panel light, so this is aimed at those needing a bright hard source with color control. Perhaps not super useful for soft interview lighting, but I'd imagine quite useful for narrative style lighting.
 
I agree it's a steep price... but the only thing I might add... is that if I hadn't just purchased a Joker2 800 HMI in the last year, I'd probably have this light on my short list to buy. For me, and most of my work, having several lights that can serve multiple functions - and also use the same accessories (I believe this will be the case with this new light) is an appealing investment - especially from a company here in the US that you can pick up the phone and call if you have any problems. I already own 2 - 100c's and for tight areas, with a 3x4 soft box & Profoto ring - one of them has been my key or fill on a several shoots in the last couple of years. The fact that I could possibly put those exact same accesories on this new light makes me happy I invested in Hive.
 
markfpv said:
I agree it's a steep price... but the only thing I might add... is that if I hadn't just purchased a Joker2 800 HMI in the last year, I'd probably have this light on my short list to buy. For me, and most of my work, having several lights that can serve multiple functions - and also use the same accessories (I believe this will be the case with this new light) is an appealing investment - especially from a company here in the US that you can pick up the phone and call if you have any problems. I already own 2 - 100c's and for tight areas, with a 3x4 soft box & Profoto ring - one of them has been my key or fill on a several shoots in the last couple of years. The fact that I could possibly put those exact same accesories on this new light makes me happy I invested in Hive.
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They are very responsive. I had an issue back in January and I sent them an email on a Friday evening, expecting a reply Monday. I received a phone call and email in maybe 30 minutes. Their engineers contacted me Monday and had a new firmware version issued to correct the problem before the end of that day. You can't ask for much more than that...
 
Run&Gun said:
They are very responsive. I had an issue back in January and I sent them an email on a Friday evening, expecting a reply Monday. I received a phone call and email in maybe 30 minutes. Their engineers contacted me Monday and had a new firmware version issued to correct the problem before the end of that day. You can't ask for much more than that...
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Yep, that's almost unheard of these days.
 
Eric Coughlin said:
This is close to a Joker replacement and the need for lights as bright as a Joker has not gone away. What other LED is offering what this Hive offers at this price point and weight? The Aperture 300D is only around $1k, but it's half the power and doesn't have RGB or Wifi control.

I don't get this talk of, "$6k is too much to spend on a light in these changing times." A Joker 800 still costs $6k and there are no cheap LEDs out there which can really compare. What has really changed? If anything, lights have gotten more expensive and people are paying these higher prices for the various benefits they offer. We used to use something like an Arri Arrilite 750 open faces as a key, for example, which only costs $450, and now many people are spending $1k on a 1x1 or $3k-$6k on a Gemini or Skypanel. So, I'd argue lighting has gotten more expensive and people are willing to pay the prices.

I think if you just need a soft light then go with a panel light, so this is aimed at those needing a bright hard source with color control. Perhaps not super useful for soft interview lighting, but I'd imagine quite useful for narrative style lighting.
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I agree, I think the price is justified, although not cheap.

There's obviously a major tech hurdle to come out with a true 800W+HMI replacement. I think the close to a joker replacement depends on your definition. I'd say more often than not an 800W HMI is used in scenarios where they're using every part of the light, at which point you could call 575w vs. 800w a significant difference.

I'd buy this light if:
- the output is really there
- the Fresnel attachment gives as nice a beam as an HMI/tungsten Fresnel, with a similar spot-flood ratio i.e. spot doesn't start at 15 degrees

I'd rather effects be built into an RGB light. The last three music videos I've worked on all required lighting gags - TV flicker, club lighting, and a party scene. Same with commercials and narrative, the effects are indispensable in saving time and often requiring less bodies to reproduce the effects manually.

As I mentioned on Newsshooter, I'd only buy this light after extensive reviews, including people using them for 6+ months, not just a YouTuber giving a free endorsement in a basement.
 
rob norton said:
I
I'd buy this light if:
- the output is really there
- the Fresnel attachment gives as nice a beam as an HMI/tungsten Fresnel, with a similar spot-flood ratio i.e. spot doesn't start at 15 degrees

I'd rather effects be built into an RGB light. The last three music videos I've worked on all required lighting gags - TV flicker, club lighting, and a party scene. Same with commercials and narrative, the effects are indispensable in saving time and often requiring less bodies to reproduce the effects manually.

As I mentioned on Newsshooter, I'd only buy this light after extensive reviews, including people using them for 6+ months, not just a YouTuber giving a free endorsement in a basement.
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I have the fresnels on my 200-C's and they do not give me the same results as Arri tungsten fresnels(i.e: 300 or 650). Honestly the results I've gotten trying to cut with the fresnel/barndoors are not much better than with the open face reflector/barndoors on my 100-C's. In other words, no hard cut, just more or less "soft flagging" of the light.
 
Run&Gun said:
I have the fresnels on my 200-C's and they do not give me the same results as Arri tungsten fresnels(i.e: 300 or 650). Honestly the results I've gotten trying to cut with the fresnel/barndoors are not much better than with the open face reflector/barndoors on my 100-C's. In other words, no hard cut, just more or less "soft flagging" of the light.
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That's good information, thanks. An Arri D12 would be such a nice light to own.

I did lighting on a few shoots which often used a really old Arri 2.5K Fresnel. It was huge and a pain to set up but made the nicest hard light. I think convenience is given too much priority these days!
 
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