I will be moving from film to HD for smaller projects and special exercises. Like many folks out there I will be using an HVX200 and will be moving to the new Sony XD Cam EX. It's obvious to me that I will need to purchase a 35mm lens adapter. While I like the convenience of the Brevis, there is almost not a single bit of footage out there on the net without highlight smear. Even with ND filters or stopping down. This appears typical with these "barrel-like"units. The Redrock unit's footage often looks clean, but let's face it, it's a monster (big and clunky). I would prefer to go with the Brevis, especially for the night and low light work, but I am wondering if there are any solutions to this question. We all want that cinematic DOF, but what's the point if the highlights are blown out and smearing like video anyhow? Thanks in advance to all you enthusiasts.
Highlight Smear
- Thread starter yoclay
- Start date
According to Barry Green and others on the board, the Brevis' GG doesn't actually smear or overexpose as it's just a projecting screen not aan imaging chip or a piece o filmL http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1096344&postcount=52
The highlighting seen on Brevis footage is probably becase it does not lose much light and therefore a scene that would overexpose the HVX without an adapter would probably still overexpose it with the brevis attached. The M2 on the other hand loses a lot o light. Overexposing a camera with an M2 and lens attached would require a lot of light.
You can corect for overexposure in a lot of ways.
1) Stop down your 35mm lens (this will increase your DOF and can lead to diffraction at very high f/stops)
2) Stop down the stock lens (a good idea anyway for getting a sharp image)
3) Use a thicker diffuser. Brevis offers two other diffusers which lose more light and have shallower depth of field.
4)Use ND filters in the stock lens or on the 35mm lens. You mentioned that even footage that uses ND filters has highlight smear. Have you been to the cinevate forums? I remember a lot of great looking, well exposed footage there. Remember that most of the footage posted on 35mm adapter forums is from people who have just gotten their adapters and are fiddling around with it. It would stand to reason that this footage may have blown highlights since the users are still getting used to using their adapters.
The highlighting seen on Brevis footage is probably becase it does not lose much light and therefore a scene that would overexpose the HVX without an adapter would probably still overexpose it with the brevis attached. The M2 on the other hand loses a lot o light. Overexposing a camera with an M2 and lens attached would require a lot of light.
You can corect for overexposure in a lot of ways.
1) Stop down your 35mm lens (this will increase your DOF and can lead to diffraction at very high f/stops)
2) Stop down the stock lens (a good idea anyway for getting a sharp image)
3) Use a thicker diffuser. Brevis offers two other diffusers which lose more light and have shallower depth of field.
4)Use ND filters in the stock lens or on the 35mm lens. You mentioned that even footage that uses ND filters has highlight smear. Have you been to the cinevate forums? I remember a lot of great looking, well exposed footage there. Remember that most of the footage posted on 35mm adapter forums is from people who have just gotten their adapters and are fiddling around with it. It would stand to reason that this footage may have blown highlights since the users are still getting used to using their adapters.
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Lenilenapi
Carbonite Member
What do you mean by "smear"? That word gets thrown around on this forum, but people seem to mean different things by it. I have no idea what you mean by Brevis "smear".
Nor what you mean about the Redrock's footage looking cleaner.
Nor what you mean about the Redrock's footage looking cleaner.
Thanks for responding guys. It's not just a case of simply being overexposed or putting a few ND filters on because of a simple 1.5-2 stop difference. It's as if there was an inherent contrast difference between the Brevis and the Redrock. While good for low light situations where expanded contrast is needed, the Brevis does not seem to provide as much gradation in the highlights in brighter settings (even though we are using the same lens and camera). The Redrock seems to provide much smoother transitions in this latter circumstance. Additionally, what I meant by smearing is that pixels within or coincident to highlighted zones tend to take on an almost "solarized" quality, essentially "flipping" - (becoming darker instead of lighter or vice versa) and this usually happens when the contrast range is too great or the latitude in the highlight portions of the curve is not adequate enough. Thus it appears that even if one brings the exposure of the Brevis into the same range as the Redrock, in certain circumstances I could imagine the transitions being poorer in the highlights. Unfortunately, that's a very "video-looking" problem...
Lenilenapi
Carbonite Member
I don't fully understand what you are describing but maybe this will make sense.
The Redrock has considerably heavier diffusion than the Brevis. The positive side of this is a generally softer contrast range and especially more diffusion of the highlights, so that highlights are not as hot as they are in the Brevis or on ordinary video. On the Redrock the overexposure bleeds into the surrounding image.
The Brevis response is closer to ordinary video. The highlights only diffuse slightly so they are brighter and contrast is greater. This can give you a slightly more video look if you choose to look at it that way. Someone else may choose to see it as "cleaner." It might blow up better, but that's just a guess. Probably some truth to both descriptions.
I don't know about the dark edge you describe but i wonder if you are looking at original footage or through web compression. You may have looked closer than I have as well.
The downside of heavier diffusion is that it tends to be softer, and absorbs more light so that the Redrock for example is considerably slower than the Brevis and doesn't have the sharpness.
Of course we are talking only about the Brevis CF1 or 1L I assume. The Letus , SGPro and Brevis CF2 & 3 are more in between the other 2 so you might look at those as alternatives. I find the SG closer in look to the Redrock but sharper and with less light loss.
Lenny Levy
The Redrock has considerably heavier diffusion than the Brevis. The positive side of this is a generally softer contrast range and especially more diffusion of the highlights, so that highlights are not as hot as they are in the Brevis or on ordinary video. On the Redrock the overexposure bleeds into the surrounding image.
The Brevis response is closer to ordinary video. The highlights only diffuse slightly so they are brighter and contrast is greater. This can give you a slightly more video look if you choose to look at it that way. Someone else may choose to see it as "cleaner." It might blow up better, but that's just a guess. Probably some truth to both descriptions.
I don't know about the dark edge you describe but i wonder if you are looking at original footage or through web compression. You may have looked closer than I have as well.
The downside of heavier diffusion is that it tends to be softer, and absorbs more light so that the Redrock for example is considerably slower than the Brevis and doesn't have the sharpness.
Of course we are talking only about the Brevis CF1 or 1L I assume. The Letus , SGPro and Brevis CF2 & 3 are more in between the other 2 so you might look at those as alternatives. I find the SG closer in look to the Redrock but sharper and with less light loss.
Lenny Levy
Ok what I have seen on almost every Brevis footage on the net by comparison to redrock are blown out highlights. Even on their websites Demos and even with Diffusion3 (see "Symphony" on their website). I would assume that these are Professionals, so it is not just a question of poor technique. However I do like very much the portability and ease of use of the Cinevate product. Even though it is only a seat of the pants comparison test, I would like to put four frame grabs from the Gear Brain article of Nov. 26 2006 of which you are all undoubtedly familiar. With thanks to Richard Darge: http://www.richard-darge.com/m2brevis.htm
You will notice in the Brevis room shot that even though the interior is now slightly darker than the Redrock shot (with noticeable artifacts due to the closed down aperture) the window has noticeably less detail in its highlights. The Redrock looks much smoother. With the Brevis Unicorn shot their is a yellow edge on the windowsill in the highlights that is present to a much greater extent than in the Redrock Unicorn image. Also, even though the exposure is slightly brighter on the Brevis Unicorn shot, the highlight washout is exponentially much greater.
As I am used to a longer tonal scale, these are the first things I notice when I see footage. The other thing I notice is that the Saturation is often greater from the Brevis than the Redrock in these demos on the net...
You will notice in the Brevis room shot that even though the interior is now slightly darker than the Redrock shot (with noticeable artifacts due to the closed down aperture) the window has noticeably less detail in its highlights. The Redrock looks much smoother. With the Brevis Unicorn shot their is a yellow edge on the windowsill in the highlights that is present to a much greater extent than in the Redrock Unicorn image. Also, even though the exposure is slightly brighter on the Brevis Unicorn shot, the highlight washout is exponentially much greater.
As I am used to a longer tonal scale, these are the first things I notice when I see footage. The other thing I notice is that the Saturation is often greater from the Brevis than the Redrock in these demos on the net...
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