Highlight Clipping Seems to be the Main Concern

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And he also said, in the same thread: "but meeting deadlines is our weak point".

I'll believe it when I see it in the RED store and I can hit a "buy" button.
 
mico said:
jannard said before April on the scarlet. i believe he would not have said that, knowing his own past history on dates, if that wasn't a feasible date barring any unforeseen issues. 2012 no way. This is coming soon.
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Given RED's track record, I would not be the least bit surprised if the Scarlet didn't hit stores until 2012. Keep in mind that the last time they missed a deadline, they had two years of history of doing so. An awareness of past behavior does not guarantee an improvement, and RED is a great example of this.
 
Homunculus said:
the problem is that all of these settings are known. cine-d, etc. panasonic flew out 5 of the top dslr film makers on earth and EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. of their footage was clipped. you're telling me none of these top guys were able to figure this out? Why did all their footage badly clip?
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First of all, it didn't. Second of all, because not one of us had access to any testing beforehand with a monitor, to profile the camera. We didn't have the opportunity to shoot, review, refine, and shoot again.

Secondly, and this is a silly one but I'll bet you it's behind 90% of the problem -- I believe the LCD backlight was set too low. Proper exposure looked too dark. So people would open up. I know I constantly found myself with zebras on the screen (even though I'd set it at 100%!) and I'd try to say "well, it won't be that bad..." when my standing rule is: never ever ever let 100% zebra show up. But it still just looked too dark, so I'd open up a bit, even though it was against my better judgement.

Had we taken the time to profile the camera, we would have set the LCD at a level that caused proper display, and then we wouldn't have been constantly tempted to open up further than necessary.

I reiterate, and you all can flame me if you want, but I'm flat-out saying: I believe there *isn't* a highlight clipping problem, any moreso than with any other Panasonic camera. I believe a little back and forth, shooting and reviewing and reshooting, would eliminate every complaint.
 
Duke M. said:
a) No one operates their camera perfectly the first, second or third time out. Its going to take a month to learn this camera.

b) Cine-D is known to cause this issue.

c) The HMC150 and 170 (in fact most video cameras) have a similar 'issue' and people now have settings that completely avoid it.

d) At this price point no camera is going to have the hardware for increased dynamic range, so it becomes a software issue, where it is already resolved with the settings. Which is how its done on every prosumer cam on the market.

e) I think the original hype and hysteria over the camera has led some fans to put Barry, Philip and the camera up on pedestals. They are people that makes mistakes in order to learn, just like we all make mistakes and learn. Plus its prosumer camera, and Panny's not promising Red's HDRx.

IMHO Its an education issue, not a camera issue.
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Absolutely agreed. This is the exact truth.

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PaPa said:
And on a side note, just to be fair, i don't think any one of them would have had the time to shoot, take a look at their footage and then shoot again. Pretty sure they just shot, popped it in the editor, uploaded.
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This is exactly correct.

What I would want to do is multiple test shoots, with a chance to review on a bigscreen monitor to see what's working and what isn't, and then refine and go again, until I was confident that I knew how it was performing.
 
mico said:
jannard said before April on the scarlet. i believe he would not have said that, knowing his own past history on dates, if that wasn't a feasible date barring any unforeseen issues. 2012 no way. This is coming soon.
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Keep in mind that only a few posts later after Jim quoted me when we might see the S35 Scarlet, he also stated that, "Keep in mind that making dates is our weakest point... " which was followed about five posts later by, "I sure hope no one is keeping track of my quotes..."

My point being that I'll be extremely surprised if the fully completed S35 Scarlet including ALL necessary accesories will be available for purchase before April of 2011. If that happens I will send Jim a case of beer. In the meantime, I've got stuff to shoot and I'm already drinking out of the case that I'm supposed to send him. :happy:
 
In all fairness to the DOP's involved, Panasonic should have given them time to test, check and experiment first for a day or so on large Panasonic broadcast monitors like the LH2550, even if they were test shooting in the car park. I look forward to the next round of footage.
 
I agree. I remember Barry saying something to the effect that the group were given tours and treated very well but had no time to really check out the cameras the day before the shoot in a studio with lights and charts They didn't want to offend their hosts which is understandable - still a shame when the camera setting were not optimized.

Thank you Barry for your reassurances. I hope it is just that simple.
 
Didn't Philip Bloom have 3 days with the camera all alone anything goes prior to the Japan trip? That what he wrote on his blog
 
My recollection was he had just flown in from overseas on the first day, had a paying gig on the second day and the batteries were dead on the third day, or words to that effect. He had this big long list of tests to do and didn't get to do them.
 
mico said:
jannard said before April on the scarlet. i believe he would not have said that, knowing his own past history on dates, if that wasn't a feasible date barring any unforeseen issues. 2012 no way. This is coming soon.
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He said the Scarlet fixed would be out first, not the S35. And the Scarlet fixed won't be released for the general public for some time after that. The April deadline is for NAB 2011, so they can make an announcement and get press coverage. However, if they aren't selling them to the general public how are you going to know if they are selling them to anybody?

Jim announced that adding HDRx would cause another delay in both programs. The Epic was recently announced as ready. Jim's definition of ready reminds me of Bill Clinton's definition of sex.

It isn't ready for anything but some test shots and still has many issues. Look for the thread from Barry about when Red sold their first cameras. They barely ran, shut down often, etc. That's where Epic is now. Its ready for test shots.

It took them a long time after that to get the Red One really functional. I'm not taking away from the fact that they did it and its a great achievement, I'm saying its not a fast process and its not easy and the new cameras are MUCH more complex.
 
I too have noticed harsh highlight clipping in every single piece of video from this camera, daytime, nightime, under sun, under light source. From the crewsTV test shoot, I noticed it on the girl's nose and cheek, to the test footage on the race track, seeing the blooming highlights off the track wall, to the other three shooter's test footage shot in Japan, I've watched all of it I could find, and I've seen it everywhere. Though, I'd love to see the Zeiss lens footage isolated head to head against the other lenses to compare, because it seems in shots where I knew the zeiss was used, I may have been seeing less highlight peaking, and a smoother all around look.
 
That doesn't make too much sense. They may have different characteristics in contrast and color but the clipping should be the same no?
 
Interesting comment in the nano flash, guess this means it's not just a characteristic of avchd.
 
Too soon to say. Barry thinks not and he's far more expert than most when it comes to these cameras.

Still one has to wonder and some very early evidence points in that direction. I hope Panasonic gives - that's right gives not loans - a camera to Barry soon so he can get to the bottom of all this.
 
I am supposed to have access to another prototype after they're done with some upcoming shows and such. Interbee in Japan is taking up just about all of the existing models. Once all these shows are over, they are going to be able to send me one with, hopefully, all the latest upgrades and latest software, and then I can do some controlled testing and figure out what the bottom line is.
 
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