hidden hd

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A producer I was talking to yesterday mentioned that he had heard that the DVX could store hidden information in the dv codec that could be pulled out when transferring up to HD (only through the panisonic transfer method). He said it had something to do with "thin line vs. thick line mode"

I've never heard of this before, and I'm wondering if anyone has a link to an article about it, or knows anything about it. Also wondering whether this is a benefit if you're finishing on film (up-transfer before editing or during on-line??).
 
Re: hidden hd

The DVX stores information about how it was shot (what frame rate, what the pulldown cadence is, etc). It's used by editing programs like Vegas to help extract the original 24P sequence.
 
Re: hidden hd

Sorry, I just looked at my question and realized I wasn't specific enough. I meant extra image information hidden within the DV Codec, along with the setting info.
 
Re: hidden hd

There's nothing in the codec, no extra image information. If there were, it'd be nonstandard DV.

Where Panasonic encodes their info is in the user bits and stuff like that. It's in the DV data stream, but not in the compressed image data part. The DV data stream includes video, audio, and timecode/user bits. Panasonic encodes their extra info in the user bits.
 
Re: hidden hd

Cameras use line averaging (blending) to reduce flicker and scan line twitter on NTSC playback. The "thicker" the blending, the lower the resolution and least twitter. That's why they say you may see line twitter on playback when shooting in thin mode. Shooting in thin helps you achieve the greatest resolution capable of the DV format.
 
Re: hidden hd

It's a mischaracterization to say the choice is between "lower resolution" and twitter... in THICK mode, the DVX is as high-resolution as any NTSC camera out there. When you go to THIN mode, you get about a 30% jump in resolution, resolution so high that an interlaced TV cannot display it properly (hence the twitter).

If shooting full-screen for television, I shoot THICK. If shooting for computer, web, stills, film xfer, or 24P DVD, shoot THIN. If shooting letterbox with the intention of stretching to 16:9 (or, on the 100A, shooting SQUEEZE mode) shoot THIN.
 
Re: hidden hd

Attn: barry

Just got the 100a and doing tests for the web. In f5 at 24p standard (not advanced) using 1/24 sec and 1/48 sec on a Sony monitor all looks great.
But when RealMedia files are made at 320x213 pixels (dual ISDN quality) one has the horizontal lines breaking out? Re did test using F5 but at 30p and the RealMedia looks good?
Now in the first test I had set the line to THIN and the second test to THICK. Only did the RealMedia and not .wmv or QT.
I will try THICK at 24p standard soon.

Cheers dunn
 
Re: hidden hd

30P should never show interlace lines on a realmedia, qt, or wmv 30-fps file.

You will see them if you edited at 60i and then exported. Edit your 24P footage in a 24P timeline, then output to a 24-fps realmedia file, and there should be no interlace lines at all. (same for QT and WMV).
 
Re: hidden hd

Will the 100A Thin Squeeze for NTSC tv playback not jitter? I've been using the 'rule-of-thumb' "for tv - Thick, everything else Thin." And I've been shooting everything 'Thick' in Squeeze mode because I'm planning to show on TV.
 
Re: hidden hd

As a matter of theory, I'd recommend using THIN with squeeze mode, regardless of what you're planning to output to. The process of stretching the footage to 16:9 should introduce enough vertical blur to overcome any interline twitter.

(but, without a 100A here to test with, that's only an educated guess, not an absolute rule).
 
Re: hidden hd

ok, thanks guys, i have the 100A and looks like i will be using the THIN setting in 24P(A) - planning on going out to a 24P DVD and probably widescreen either with the adapter or in sqeeze mode.

are there any issues and problems with making a 24P DVD and playback in various DVD players out there? do you need a progressive scan DVD player or is it ok if someone plays it in their older player? (for example i have a 99 model toshiba, will i have issues? im guessing not since i play current dvd movies in there all the time).

i know this post has morphed into something totally different but oh well!
 
Re: hidden hd

Barry,

I did edit in a 29.97 timeline Mac Premiere 6.5. Hence the lines breaking out!
Thanks

Dunn

P.S. That static groundglass adapter sounds interesting All one would need is a little net or mist filter on the lense to obscure the grain? Video is too sharp anyway. Even old Hi8 looks best when it is shot through a net.
 
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