Help with sunrise/sunset shots

I

Inveresk

Well-known member
I've had the AF100 about three months now and am developing a familiarity with it but don't mind admitting the learning curve is steeper than I imagined and I need some help with settings and procedure for some ramped up sunrise and sunset landscape shots I want to take. I'm assuming I use VFR for speeding up the action, although I realize this can also be done in post. The lowest frame rate possible on the AF100 seems to be 12fps so would that be the recommended setting at 1080p?

I'm not sure whether to use a manual lens - Nokton 25mm 0.95 - or go automatic with the Lumix 14-140mm. If I use the Nokton, how do I set the exposure manually to ensure a smooth transition, without discernible steps, as ambient light levels increase from darkness to daylight? Would the Lumix lens set to auto iris be better in that respect? If so, what do I do if ND filtering is needed?

Are there other factors I should consider such as the gain and white balance?
 
I am not an expert. But i did shoot alot of sunsets recently:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18tO5AyYiGY&list=UU3x1N7a5cyWZcjrh8CI8wWw&index=5&feature=plcp
If you like these what I did was bought a bunch of old cheap nikon glass. about 6 different lenses widely available
anywhere from 40 - 60 dollars apiece. I even bought a lens for under 10 dollars. mainly I didnt know what i wanted
so it was put down to research and education. as for the shooting what I found really helped was setting the aperture
with the white hash marks in the bottom right hand corner of the lcd. when it got too dark i would change the shot
and adjust the iris up till there was as close to one hashtag as possible. I would also adjust the interval depending
on whether there was more or less time left as it set. Hope this helps a little. My best advice is have fun with it press all
the buttons and experiment and enjoy the discovery. you will learn more shooting than internetting. find out what YOU like!
 
You don't want VFR- for time lapse you want Interval Recording, which is in Recording Setup- 1 frame/1 sec, 1 frame/10 sec (faster), etc.

Exposure is tricky (especially sunrise), you should experiment, see what works best. Adding ND might be noticeable before/after you add it, but try it, see how it goes...
 
I've been playing around with timelapse using video. Here's a clip that was shot using Interval Recording of 1 frame/sec. I used a variable ND filter (Singh-Ray) to adjust for the changing light while watching the waveform. Used a rubber jar opener with a long flexible handle to smooth out the ND adjustments.

Didn't get it quite right and ended up doing some time remapping in post to get the speeds I wanted. One gripe I have with the AF100 intervals is going from 1 frame/1 sec to 1 frame/10 sec is a pretty big jump. I'd like to have seen a 5 second interval in there. BTW - this was shot on an AC-160A, but it's very similar to the AF100 feature-wise.

 
scott favorite said:
I am not an expert. But i did shoot alot of sunsets recently:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18tO5AyYiGY&list=UU3x1N7a5cyWZcjrh8CI8wWw&index=5&feature=plcp
If you like these what I did was bought a bunch of old cheap nikon glass. about 6 different lenses widely available
anywhere from 40 - 60 dollars apiece. I even bought a lens for under 10 dollars. mainly I didnt know what i wanted
so it was put down to research and education. as for the shooting what I found really helped was setting the aperture
with the white hash marks in the bottom right hand corner of the lcd. when it got too dark i would change the shot
and adjust the iris up till there was as close to one hashtag as possible. I would also adjust the interval depending
on whether there was more or less time left as it set. Hope this helps a little. My best advice is have fun with it press all
the buttons and experiment and enjoy the discovery. you will learn more shooting than internetting. find out what YOU like!
Click to expand...

Some nice shots in there - looks like you had fun! Great bird.
 
tflak said:
I've been playing around with timelapse using video. Here's a clip that was shot using Interval Recording of 1 frame/sec. I used a variable ND filter (Singh-Ray) to adjust for the changing light while watching the waveform. Used a rubber jar opener with a long flexible handle to smooth out the ND adjustments.

Didn't get it quite right and ended up doing some time remapping in post to get the speeds I wanted. One gripe I have with the AF100 intervals is going from 1 frame/1 sec to 1 frame/10 sec is a pretty big jump. I'd like to have seen a 5 second interval in there. BTW - this was shot on an AC-160A, but it's very similar to the AF100 feature-wise.

Click to expand...

Very nice! Love the shafts of light, almost wish the people weren't in it!

Great control of exposure, though it's not near as extreme as a sunrise/set.

Looking good with the 160, tflac!
 
Thanks for both replies, and the links. I see now that interval recording is the way to go. I don't have any external ND filters so will have to use what is on the camera. I expect the stepped ND filters will pose a problem but will experiment and see what I can achieve.
 
groveChuck said:
Very nice! Love the shafts of light, almost wish the people weren't in it!

Great control of exposure, though it's not near as extreme as a sunrise/set.

Looking good with the 160, tflac!
Click to expand...

Thanks! I DEFINITELY wish the people weren't in the shot. In fact, I almost trashed this footage because they "ruined" my shoot. But decided to see what I could do with it anyway - this is what I came up with.

Inveresk - sorry to go have gone a bit off-topic seeing how you asked for help with sunrise/sunsets and this is only magic hour. But the principals are somewhat the same - even though sunrise/sunset are much tougher, as groveChuck said. Sunrise is the really tough one to get right.

Stepped NDs will definitely ruin any timelapse you try to capture (IMO).
 
tflak- where was this shot? It's a beautiful spot. And could you cut the people out and do a dissolve?

Inveresk- you could try quickly flipping a ND on/off, resetting aperture and trying to match levels with the WFM,
then edit out the ND change if you recorded it, plus a little more matching in post- but it's tricky, I've tried.

It might look different optically also, as the different apertures will register the light differently.

But hey, give it a try, and have fun experimenting, right?
 
Very beautiful, really like the play of sunlight on the trees.

I have really no experience in timelapse video. Once I just set my AF101 to interval mode (1 frame/ 10 sec) and put the camera on the window for the night. Obviously I ended up with some overexposed footage once the sun (and myself)was up in the morning and I turned on an ND filter, but the change was way too abrupt, so I cut the video into two separate clips. In the evening I did the same when the moon came out.
The results were fairly poor, but I would like to do such timelapses again, with better results. Are there any specific settings (to avoid turning on an ND filter) that could have helped these videos?

Here are the three videos (no grading):
https://vimeo.com/26519025
https://vimeo.com/26518970
https://vimeo.com/26518992

Oh, does anyone recognize the city in question?
 
I guess my main question is this. Considering that the light keeps changing in this kind of timelapse videos, is it better auto iris or fixed aperture?
Clearly my test shots turned out way over exposed as soon as there was daylight.
 
Maukka said:
I guess my main question is this. Considering that the light keeps changing in this kind of timelapse videos, is it better auto iris or fixed aperture?
Clearly my test shots turned out way over exposed as soon as there was daylight.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking auto iris which rules out the Voigtlander lens. The 14-140mm is slower than I'd like but if set to auto it should be at widest exposure, ND filter set to 1, when I start shooting in nearly dark conditions. Assuming ten second intervals between frames, I was hoping when I see the iris is at F22 to go up a stop on the ND filter, at which point auto iris should adjust to get me close to the same exposure. I'm hoping ten seconds is enough time for the iris to adjust so the ND change can be edited out if need be and the video still looks seamless. The Lumix on auto is a bit steppy so this might not work but it's the best I can do.
 
groveChuck said:
tflak- where was this shot? It's a beautiful spot. And could you cut the people out and do a dissolve?
Click to expand...

Shot in the rolling hills of PA. The clip is kinda short as it is - cutting out the runners wouldn't leave much. Besides, once I finished it I decided they add a nice quirky touch to it - along with the club music. :)

Maukka said:
Very beautiful, really like the play of sunlight on the trees.
Click to expand...

That's what I like about that spot too. Am going to try and capture it on a morning when the mist is heavier. Really gets pronounced sunbeams some mornings. It's one of my favorite spots.

Lots of good suggestions here. I'm going to try some bracketing using RAW with my GH2 for sunrises. But this has now become a challenge for me with the AF100 so I'll probably also keep seeing what I can do using the Vari-ND method. Should be fun. Will post anything I may come up with.

FYI - Here's a link to some pretty good discussions on timelapse with the GH2, including the bracketing method:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?277972-Confused-about-timelapse-with-GH2
 
Inveresk said:
I'm thinking auto iris which rules out the Voigtlander lens. The 14-140mm is slower than I'd like but if set to auto it should be at widest exposure, ND filter set to 1, when I start shooting in nearly dark conditions. Assuming ten second intervals between frames, I was hoping when I see the iris is at F22 to go up a stop on the ND filter, at which point auto iris should adjust to get me close to the same exposure. I'm hoping ten seconds is enough time for the iris to adjust so the ND change can be edited out if need be and the video still looks seamless. The Lumix on auto is a bit steppy so this might not work but it's the best I can do.
Click to expand...

You may want to consider not going past about f/11 (f/16 at most) due to the softening effects of diffraction. What would make that more noticeable in a timelapse versus regular shooting is you'd be going from a wider aperture (nice and sharp) to a narrow aperture (starts getting soft after f/11). Of course, depending on what you're shooting it may not be all that noticeable. But something to be aware of.

Here's a good conversation about diffraction where Barry Green shares his expertise on the subject:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?283692-Getting-the-best-possible-deep-rich-shots
 
tflak said:
You may want to consider not going past about f/11 (f/16 at most) due to the softening effects of diffraction. What would make that more noticeable in a timelapse versus regular shooting is you'd be going from a wider aperture (nice and sharp) to a narrow aperture (starts getting soft after f/11). Of course, depending on what you're shooting it may not be all that noticeable. But something to be aware of.

Here's a good conversation about diffraction where Barry Green shares his expertise on the subject:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?283692-Getting-the-best-possible-deep-rich-shots
Click to expand...

Thanks. That's worth knowing.
 
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