HELP, with sony ex1

P

payebra

New member
Hey guys,

so i shoot alot of snowboarding/skateboarding.
for web and commercial use. this is my first xdcam i have owned.
it has gone strong for me for the last year or so, but recently i have
been getting glitchy footage from it.
i was shooting at 720/50p , it has only occurred a few times,

does anybody know why or how to fix it.
i am running all recent firmware.


wrecked.jpgwreckedd.jpg

any help would be greatly appreciated
 
Absolutely it can be the issue. I would never use SDHC cards in my EX1 even for shooting 30P or 24P -- and you're shooting at 50P. You're just asking for trouble. Either get some real SxS cards and use the camera how it was designed to be used, or maybe give XQD cards a try. They're closer to the price of SDHC but closer to the performance of SxS.
 
Doug's right... Very few SDHC cards can write to that rate.... and they can't do it consistently, which is what you're probably seeing. Bite the bullet and get SxS cards for that kind of sports video.
 
It's getting a bit boring listening to the same tune in regards to only Sony can do the job. With a quality adapter and memory you are able to record up to 220mb/s glitch free and as long as you want for. Yes Sony won't allow you to record into a SD memory card...@ 4.2.2. sampling as they want to protect their own media. End users who have problems with SD memory cards have them because of either Sony's firmware or using extremely cheap memory cards not designed for sustained recording.
 
Boring, but safe. There are some risks that are not worth taking if this is your career and livlihood on the line. If you can't afford premium gas, don't buy a car that requires it.
Anyway, a much better alternative to SD cards are XQD cards. They're a fraction of the price of SxS cards and can still record 50Mbps 422. In fact, on my F55 I can do both 4K XAVC and 50Mbps XDCAM simultaneously to the same XQD card. NO SD card could that.
 
Doug, you've made your point perfectly clear time and time again,... that the only storage solution has to be a "Sony" product for you and now Frank C... However, this is not the solution for everyone and not everyone is going to use Sony media every time. Your analogy to using gas (petrol) is invalid as you don't get lesser media quality using robust, reliable and high spec SD memory cards. Since we manufacture SD memory cards, I would say we know a thing or two about it... The glitch presented by payebra could be anything! It doesn't need to be always blamed on the SD memory card, just because it is on it. Professionals will, despite your view, use SD memory cards for their livelihood without risk, and they have every right to, provided they choose the right SD memory card.
 
Marek, I know that you make a great product and if everyone was smart enough to purchase from you, then there'd probably be no problem with using SD cards. And I'll admit that it is much easier for someone like me, who has to train and advise other people on best practices and workflows, to simply lump all SDHC cards into one category and say that you're better off not using them at all. Maybe that's not fair, but I also never comment on specific brands one way or another. A lot of dumb people don't listen to brand names or they simply forget which ones are okay use. They just hear "SDHC" cards and think they are all the same. We both know that happens a lot. On the other hand, if I recommend SxS cards or XQD cards, I know I am on solid ground doing so. I don't care who the manufacturer is, they just happen to be Sony. And why not, Sony invested in the R&D didn't they? The important thing is that ALL teh SxS and XQD cards are going to work great and I don't have to be concerned that someone will choose the wrong brand and then ***** at me when they get burned.

Afterall, when you boil it all down, there is absolutley no reason not use SxS cards except to save money. There is no other benefit to using any other type of card. And when you compare the cost of a few memory cards vs. what I used to pay for blank tape, the savings are in the thousands of dollars annually. And as people transition from 35Mbps FAT cameras like the EX1 and EX3, to newer cameras like the PMW-200/160/150/100, they can keep right on using the same media. Whether the incompatibilty of SD cards is an articifial barrier created by Sony or has a valid technical reason, I don't know or care. That is Sony's business and I jsut have to deal withe the way things are, not wish how they could be different.

Marek, I think it would be perfectly appropriate for you to take this opportinity to talk about YOUR brand of cards and give them a plug. Like I said, I think you have a solid product and I'm sorry if they get lumped in with my other negative comments about cards. In a way, if you look at your post #7, you are guilty of the same thing I am of lumping all SD cards together. If yours are better -- mention them by name so people know which ones to buy and that you stand behind them.
 
This info is all on our website, where one can refer to a list on the tested media page. Fundamentally, choosing the correct memory card is important from a manufacturer who produces a memory card and not just a reseller.... Example, Hoodman, ATP, SanDisk (Toshiba)...they are some of the developers and manufacturers. Memory cards are made using different components with every production run...as long as they meet the criteria for their class. So naturally they will not be equal or the same in regards to robustness. "I'm sorry if they get lumped in with my other negative comments about cards"... We realised that, and over time, the consumers were going for the cheapest memory cards possible, thinking that they are all the same...but you and I, we know they are not. The only solution is to keep reminding consumers the importance of choosing the correct memory card. The benefits of using the SDHC alternative are enormous and not also not only in terms of costs ...The versatility and accessibility of them. Example, if you run out of media during a shoot you can obtain memory cards quite quickly. More than that, for archiving your data as well and also re-using them on other equipment. As I say...only Sony media is not a solution for everyone and we also understand neither is the SD solution, but with the right choice I can't see why they can't co-exist.
 
I have great respect for the both of you, and your knowledge base. You've both made great points and I've enjoyed the discussion. I guess it all boils down to... I want things to work while I'm in front of a client. My livelihood depends on it. I wonder if we could turn this discussion into a White Paper or publish an article. Thanks...
 
i had an ex1 and i went with adaptors and sdhc. the sandisc cards i was using were bad and did give numerous problems. i upgraded to atp and they worked wonders for for a few years until i sold it.
 
The quality of any card varies even from batch to batch. Certainly some brands are more consistent than others as Maris pointed out. Of course we generally us SDHC cards as a cost saving factor. If cost was not an object, most of us would probably opt for an SxS. Obviously ya gotta use an SxS for things like SloMo, etc. Funny, but even some Sony SDHC cards didn't work for me. They couldn't write fast enough even thought they were Class 10.
 
I'm an amateur. I don't do paid jobs with the camera (only a few so far). I have 380 system hours with the ex1r. I use these two card combos and so far i didn't have a single problem. I had a problem with 'another' adapter manufacturer tho'.

MXM Express SDHC/SDXC + 32GB Sandisk Extreme Pro 90MB/s
MXM Express SDHC/SDXC + 32GB ATP Promax

The number one rule i think is waiting for the camera to complete its action on the card. For example if you are previewing your last shot and you hit preview button to go back to shooting mode, wait for the red light over the card slot to go green first. Same thing when working with the card on a computer. First safely remove the adapter from the taskbar icon, then remove it from the usb reader physically. Edit: I also don't eject SD cards from the adapters. One card per adapter and i treat them as a whole unit.

Some people on internet always mention that sxs is superior to every other format. Sony f65 is superior to sony ex1r but at what cost? I think Sony is selling overpriced products. Their cameras, accessories, cards, batteries, everything is overpriced, at least to me. I bought this camera for its shot transition feature, everything-in-one-body kinda design, and flippable lcd screen, not for its technical aspects to be honest. Just because i got an ex1r, doesn't mean i'm willing to spend hundreds of dollars just to record what i'm shooting. (On a side note my ex1r package was named ex1r-2, meaning it didn't have any sxs cards inside, which i had found very odd back then)

I didn't use any sxs cards. I heard they had this error correction feature within them. As much secure as they may sound, i'm sure i can kill one of them in no time, IF i want to. I never trust electronic devices, never. No matter how secure/robust etc they are advertised, they may (and will at some point) die on you, while you are doing an important thing.

Treat your media well and lower the chances of such a thing happening to you. Nothing will last forever anyway.
 
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Going back to the OP's point - I've seen this.

It's when my EX1 got damp. Specifically, I was traveling to the venue, got caught in a downpour - my camera was in a backpack which had a sort of 'anorak' around it, but somehow it got damp or wet or something - and for the first hour and a half it freaked out.

Blue channel went missing, weird drop outs like yours, all sorts of things. It wanted to work, but it just didn't. Unbelievably, the video is still up:


Half an hour in an air conditioned room with a fan heater and all was wonderful again. That camera has never given me an ounce of trouble since. It's the Volkswagen Golf/Rabbit of cameras - 'Tough Old Boot'.

So... beyond cards, maybe moisture/condensation can be difficult? C.f. Alister Chapman's excellent advice about taking cameras to/from cold & dry/moist and warm envoronments?
 
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