Help with new camera to replace dvx-100

L

Lars Gregersen

Member
Hi there,

I start this thread, as I cant seem to find a good replacement for my old dvx-100.

Due to most of our videos get shown via vimeo, we have decided we need to upgrade to HD.
I have a small performance company, and we document all our performances, and sell them to festivals from these videos. So it is necessary the video quality is quite good, and especially the low-light performance good as well.

I thought the AC-160 would be perfect, but then I discovered the problem with auto-focus, which makes it next to useless for me. And also when I tested it, it did seem big and bulky to me, not as nice to film with as the dvx.
I then checked out the hmc- 151 and hpx-171, each seems good, but sounds like the technology in it is a bit outdated, and as it is a big investment for us, I rather not buy a camera that is behind from the start.
Although I would love to get the variable frame rates the 160 and 171 have. (mostly to be able to do slow-mo, and buildup sequences)

Can anyone give me some good tips?
Do I maybe need to look for another brand than Panasonic?

I hope someone can give me some advice... Thanks

Best regards
Lars
 
Did you actually observe the auto-focus problems in your testing of the AC160, and did it affect the quality of the work you want to do? From what I've read here, whether it is a problem in practice is fairly dependent on the subjects you shoot, and lighting conditions. Not trying to stir up any kind of debate, just curious about what you saw.

The HMC150 still has a lot going for it despite being slightly older technology.

- Greg
 
+1 for HMC150 - There is still so much going for this cam, and now you should be able to pick up a used unit for a great price. I've been shooting on one since October of '08. Before that I was using a DVC30 and a dvx100a. The transition from the 100a to the 150 is pretty easy- the 150 will feel very familiar to you.
 
Yes, I definitely saw the faulty autofocus. I have written about it in a post in the long thread of "does this seem like an autofocus bug to you?".
Shortly, it is really seriously shitty, so if you use autofocus, it makes it a big problem.

When we document our performances, it is always live, never set up, A lot of things happen on stage, and sometimes it is people not used to manually focus that film.

My DVX-100 has handled that very well. But the excruciatingly slow and faulty autofocus on the 160 would never keep up with our movements on stage. Unfortunately.
My test was even in daylight, so I can only imagine how bad it would be in low light...
 
I am also looking for a replacement for the 100B. I'm just starting to look, budget is a consideration. I shoot short documentaries and informational programming for a town. I will be using the camera with a Macbook Pro and FCPX. Any information would be very helpful...hate to see the 100B go....but I need to get rid of the tape. Thanks
 
yes... The editing is another point. I will also be editing on a macbook pro, using premiere cs 5 though. But how does the shootage from the hmc-151 handle with that?
Thanks!
 
Recently sold my HMC150, but you don't need to convert any thing at all. Premiere Pro CS5 natively reads the MTS files which saves the time of Log and Transform from FCS2 (my old software). Saves so much time. The preview window will look a little messy but once you export the media those things disappear. It may be the live preview of MTS isn't as clean as you may hope but it'll play/edit just fine.
 
the thing with the hmc 151, is that the price here in Denmark where i am based are still very high. It is actually nearly the same as the ac-160!
It seems like it should be much lower because of age and less options.
I still have a desperate hope that the autofocus bug thread suddenly will reveal an answer from Panasonic saying they finally corrected the fault.
 
I use the Sony NX5 at work. I work in the Media Services Department at a University and we use the NX5s for everything. It is a little pricey at $4,000. But it is worth it in my opinion. We mostly shoot classes, which are in a farily low light situation, we also shoot lots of big events and student gatherings with these cameras. We have 4 currently and I think they do amazingly well in low light. The autofocus can at times be slow, generally in lower light scenarios, but other than that it does extremely well.

While I haven't used the Panasonic HMC 150, I have heard very good things about them overall. I would definitely try one if you're leaning towards Panasonic.

Good luck!
 
I moved from a DVX to the HMC150 last year and it's been a blast. I love the camera. Actually bought it over the AC130.
 
Im in the same position as the original poster. I need new cameras and was hoping the 130/160 or hpx250 would be the solution. Started looking at the dated 150 due to the issues with autofocus but don't want to buy an already old camera.
Does anyone know if the ac130/160a or hpx250a versions have fixed the autofocus problems?
 
I am looking to update my system also. My goal is a feature or two while doing some music vids and other stuff as I have time for. You guys are talking the hmc150 as "dated" and "old technology" but what is better at that price point. Granted I have just recently been looking into upgrading so am not up on the newer stuff, but the HMC150 so far looks like it might be a fit. I like the idea of the HPX170 also but being able to shoot to SDHC cards instead of the more expensive P2 is more to my likeing as long as there is no image problems. The little research I have done on the ac160 etc scares me off a bit with the CMOS and the way it captures rather than the CCD. I was reading that those CMOS cameras have a banding problem (granted they have a software/firmware "fix" for it but it still unsettles me) which would not be good for my intentions which will include live music (lights flashing on and off) narrative with emergency vehicles (lights flashing on and off), and narrative with gunfire etc (quick flashes of light). I would also want to play around with some "run and gun" type of video also. With this in mind, does the HMC150 look like a good fit or is there something better at that price point. Keep in mind, I have no intention of buying anything outside the Panasonic family at this point.
 
To be 100% honest guys I was utterly disappointed with the 130!! I have actually on-sold my pair as they just didn't live up to any expectations at all....the "excuses" I got was "don't use any auto functions ..only use manual" ..The cam has full auto so all of them should work (which they don't) If you buy a auto transmission car does the dealer tell you that the shifting is poor so rather shift manually??? The upgrade only makes the push auto faster..the auto focus still has a mind of it's own especially zoomed in...the ATW is also terrible!! I was shooting with perfect conditions outdoors and for no reason it just turned the image a green/blue as if I had walked out of a room with low colour temp....the iris only works within the iris range and there is no shutter change so you are always changing ND filters even if the sun dips behind a cloud so it might as well be an manual cam!! I thought the overall colour rendition was poor too!! On default scene file it's washed out and on F3 (Spark) it's great except grass appears way too bright!!! My HMC80's did a far better job at half the price so i would probably also be biased towards the 150 ...they are still manufactured and still current ..and they are reliable and predictable too!!

Chris
 
The single card recording of the hmc150 concerns me as well. I wish it had redundant dual recording. If you use panasonic cards are they pretty reliable? How about low light performance? I hear it's considerably better with the newer ones.
Anyone here used an hpx150 and ac130a or ac160a?
 
Hi Firehawk

I must admit I never used the dual slot on my 130's but it is a safety net..then again I have been using AVCCAM's since 2009 and never ever a card failure... I always shoot with two cameras however so I could switch without losing too much..there are always two running at theatre gigs as you never know what might happen...a card might NOT fail BUT something else might..battery, you could kick over the camera or audio could fail ...I think it's a lot safer (if you worry) to actually use two cams so everything is covered!!
The same goes for audio and I always have two desk feeds plus mics on each camera !! Now regarding low light, I was watching my footage from last year, shot on HMC82's with tiny 1/4" chips and a on-cam light and compared them to the 130's footage this year with the same setup and darn it..the smaller chips have a lot less video noise and a sparkling image ...I really expected a huge difference but it seemed to be reversed???? If you want the same form factor as a DVX then I still think the 150 out performs the new 130/160's overall!!! Using the 1/4" versus the 1/3" chips there is not a huge difference as I was expecting and at wedding receptions I still have to use lighting!! I moved from CCD to CMOS a while back and seriously, the CCD chips still give a better result...I even prefer the 1/4" CMOS to the new 1/3rd chips....when zoomed on the 130..just a tiny bit of wind does cause a jello bounce in the image which the 1/4" chips don't have and the 150 definately never had!!!

Chris
 
I just spent the last week shooting concerts and theatrical events with a pair of HMC150's and my new AC160. Every time I shoot with the 150, it just flat out amazes me with what that little "old" cam can do. And its so easy to use, to boot. Good but not great auto functions, plus a wealth of manual controls in a small, compact body. It is really easy to recommend one, and I do at every opportunity. You should probably have one just because it can, if need be, be operated like a point and shoot. Not important to some but critical to others. It is a very reliable cam.

These are two very different beasts though. I do love the 150 and will keep at least one in my arsenal of reliable event filming gear, the 130/160 series does have a couple very clear advantages. In low light they seem roughly equal. The 150 seems to be capable of producing a brighter image, but seems to have a harder time controlling exposure "hot spots". Under bright spots it will wash out before the 160 will. The 160 seems to have more dynamic range. When it comes to recording audio, they are anything but equal. The 160's LPCM audio is so superior to the 150's, it ain't funny. Not even close in my experience.
I am saving my pennies now for a second 160. It's a great cam, AF issues and all.
I will report more fully on my observations early next week, right now I am editing to beat heck.
 
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I think as nothing new has come out, then I might go with the hmc-150.
It is nearly half the price of the AC-160, and the size, AF issues etc bothered me a lot with the 160.
A shame not to get the 50p for slowmo, but so be it.
 
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