Help with H4n setup

Grisnjam

Grisnjam

Well-known member
So I am playing with my new H4n so I can get a good feel for setting it up.

I am having trouble getting my Rode VideoMic Pro to work on Input 1 or Input 2. It works fine if I plug into the 3.5 mic override on the back but if I use a 3.5 -> 1/4 inch adapter and plug it into Input 1 or Input 2 I get nothing. Pluggin my iphone into Input 1 with the same adapter works fine.

Am I missing anything here? Setup:

4 ch mode
phantom power off
mono mix off
internal mic on
VMP into Input 1
iphone into Input 2

When I press record I can see levels on the internal mic and Input 2 from the iphone but not Input 1 with the VMP.

Thanks,
 
Ok I think the issue is that the 1/4 inch inputs on the bottom are assumed to be line level while the XLR inputs are mic level? This is why the line level iphone works fine into the 1/4 inputs but the VMP does not. I guess I need a XLR -> 3.5 adapter if I want to record with a shotgun on the bottom inputs.
 
Grisnjam said:
Ok I think the issue is that the 1/4 inch inputs on the bottom are assumed to be line level while the XLR inputs are mic level? This is why the line level iphone works fine into the 1/4 inputs but the VMP does not. I guess I need a XLR -> 3.5 adapter if I want to record with a shotgun on the bottom inputs.
Click to expand...

So my 3.5 -> XLR adapter arrived yesterday and I am still unable to get the H4n to record at usable audio level from the VMP on the H4n's input 1 or 2. Running a line level in works fine but using the VMP's 3.5 -> XLR -> H4n with the VMP a +20dB and the H4n at 100% input volume I still don't get audio recorded.

Is it possible to do this? When I plug the VMP into the H4n 'external' mic 3.5 input which over rides the H4n's condenser mics it works fine. But I would like to be able to record with the condenser mics on the H4n and the VMP on one of the inputs so I can have a backup track.

Thoughts on why I am having trouble here?
 
I'm afraid I don't have any ideas to contribue, it sounds like you're sussing it out properly. I just wanted to point out that the H4n does not have "line-level" inputs. You should just keep this in mind going forward. You don't want to end up in a situation where you send the H4n a true line-level signal. It will be a distorted mess, even with the input levels turned all the way down.

For line-level recording with the H4n you need either external attenuation pads, a mixer like the Sound Devices 302 that can send the H4n softer signals, or you need something like a juicedLink or Beachtek box that allows you to patch line-level signals into the H4n's 3.5mm stereo mic input.
 
Sam Mallery said:
I'm afraid I don't have any ideas to contribue, it sounds like you're sussing it out properly. I just wanted to point out that the H4n does not have "line-level" inputs. You should just keep this in mind going forward. You don't want to end up in a situation where you send the H4n a true line-level signal. It will be a distorted mess, even with the input levels turned all the way down.

For line-level recording with the H4n you need either external attenuation pads, a mixer like the Sound Devices 302 that can send the H4n softer signals, or you need something like a juicedLink or Beachtek box that allows you to patch line-level signals into the H4n's 3.5mm stereo mic input.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply.

On the line level issue, I have been able to run line level into the H4n from my iphone (50% volume on the iphone and 50% on the H4n) and he audio sounded fine it seems. Have I been fooled somehow?
 
The H4n does actually have line level inputs - via 1/4" jacks.
You can't get line level in via XLR.
This isn't explained very well in the H4n manual or on their site.

Gisnjam - this is going to sound like a really stupid question - but when you plug your mic in are you certain you've selected the inputs (1 & 2) and are not selecting the 'mic' input on the Zoom.
Sorry, i always try to start with the most obvious thing first.
 
Luis Caffesse said:
The H4n does actually have line level inputs - via 1/4" jacks.
You can't get line level in via XLR.
This isn't explained very well in the H4n manual or on their site.

Gisnjam - this is going to sound like a really stupid question - but when you plug your mic in are you certain you've selected the inputs (1 & 2) and are not selecting the 'mic' input on the Zoom.
Sorry, i always try to start with the most obvious thing first.
Click to expand...

All my tests are in the MTR (4 track) mode. VMP into the 'Mic' input works fine (3.5mm connection). VMP into Input 1 does not (3.5 -> XLR -> Input 1 connection). Maybe I'll try stereo mode tonight with just the VMP into Input 1.

Thanks for you help guys.
 
Sam Mallery said:
Hit it with a +4 dBu line-level signal from a mixing board and you'll hear what I'm talking about. :)
Click to expand...

Ok google-ing around found this thread which lays it out pretty well:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/all-things-audio/478727-zoom-h4n-line-input.html

The 1/4 inch inputs are consumer line in (-10 dBu) while most line outputs on sound boards are professional line level (+4 dBu) so a pad would be needed. Any recommendations on a good selectable inline pad?

But while this is great info for when I need to record a line out I am still struggling to get my VMP to play nice with the XLR inputs on the H4n. I am using this XLR -> 1/4 adapter and then a 1/4 -> 3.5 to get from the VMP into the XLR on the H4n:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/469422-REG/Monster_Cable_600457_CableLinks_Adapter_XLR.html

Does that part look ok?
 
Ok after more testing tonight I have come to the conclusion that I can't do what I want (run the on-board condenser mic AND the VMP into Input 1 at the same time).

My conclusion is that the XLR-1/4 inputs are at a lower level then the 'External Mic' input. Here are the tests that make me think this:

1) I can run the VMP at +20 dB into the 'External Mic' input via the 3.5 connector and set the input volume at 15% and get good levels a few feet away.
2) When I run the VMP at +20 dB into the XLR input via a 3.5mm->1/4->XLR->H4n and crank the input level to 100% I can barley hear the audio when a few inches away. This is also true if I go VMP->1/4->H4n.
3) When I run a consumer line level stereo output into the 1/4 inputs via a '3.5mm stereo -> 2x mono 1/4' and set the H4n to 50% I get good levels. Same is true if I use the 1/4 or XLR on the H4n.

So my final question is next time I rent a G3 wireless lav will I be able to run it into the XLRs on the H4n ok? My guess is yes as I know people do this and I assume that I can adjust the AF out on the G3 to get good levels on the H4n.

Thanks,
 
1. Consumer devices output -10dBV, not dBu. Pro audio devices output +4dBu. Because of the different formats (without getting into the math), pro audio gear is roughly 11dB hotter.
2. The issue is that you're using a balanced input on the H4n. XLR works by having a positive (+) and a negative (-) signal (and a ground). Over a long cable run, the signal are exact opposites, and then at the receiving device (recorder in your case) the one signal is inverted and then they are added together and any interference from the cable run is canceled out.
Now, the VPM outputs dual mono, so positive (+) and positive (+) (and a ground). Instead of canceling out noise, because the signals are the same it's actually canceling out the signal itself. Use a 1/8" stereo --> mono adapter and you'll be all set.

In other words...
XLR: 1 + 1 = 2
Dual mono VPM to XLR: 1 + (-1) = 0
 
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Gohanto said:
1. Consumer devices output -10dBV, not dBu. Pro audio devices output +4dBu. Because of the different formats (without getting into the math), pro audio gear is roughly 11dB hotter.
2. The issue is that you're using a balanced input on the H4n. XLR works by having a positive (+) and a negative (-) signal (and a ground). Over a long cable run, the signal are exact opposites, and then at the receiving device (recorder in your case) the one signal is inverted and then they are added together and any interference from the cable run is canceled out.
Now, the VPM outputs dual mono, so positive (+) and positive (+) (and a ground). Instead of canceling out noise, because the signals are the same it's actually canceling out the signal itself. Use a 1/8" stereo --> mono adapter and you'll be all set.

In other words...
XLR: 1 + 1 = 2
Dual mono VPM to XLR: 1 + (-1) = 0
Click to expand...

Wonderful. I had a feeling it had to do with balanced vs unbalanced but I was not sure how. I'll hit radio shack today and give it a try tonight.

EDIT: I couldn't wait so I hobbled together a cable to try it (1/4'' Stereo -> RCA break out cable to get one channel from the VMP into the XLR connection) and it worked!

Thanks for taking the time to read though this mess and figure it out for me!
 
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