Help with crappy Gh2 footage

B

brymandavis

New member
Hello everyone,
I'm having a hell of a time getting any kind of decent image out of my GH2. I'm turning to you guys for help. I've seen video after video of sharp, clean GH2 footage. Mine just looks soft, noisy, and artifact filled. Please take a look at this test video I've created and let me know what you guys think. Is it my camera? Is it me? Look at the background at 00:20....that especially looks nasty to me. ANY help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

https://vimeo.com/53394529


GH2
Lens: Vivitar 28-200
All shots: Aperture -3.5, SS - 1/50, ISO-640
No color correction
Most shots Smooth (-2,-2,-2,-2) a couple (I think the shots of the pumpkin) Vibrant (-2,-2,-1,-2)
 
The shot you specifically mention at 00:20 just looks way underexposed to me. Which means it will be noisy. Hacked or unhacked GH2?
 
Jim Simon-
Yes it's been encoded...but hasn't most peoples footage on the web? Are you saying you think most people are just editing their gh2 footage natively? I can't imagine that's the case. Yes the original file is better than the vimeo version....but it still looks bad.
 
@Razz16mm-
Yes, that shot is underexposed....but i've seen others underexposed footage that looked far better. I just put it in their to show a severe case. It is Hacked...88mbit.
 
brymandavis said:
@Razz16mm-
Yes, that shot is underexposed....but i've seen others underexposed footage that looked far better. I just put it in their to show a severe case. It is Hacked...88mbit.
Click to expand...

From my pov, and aesthetics, all of your shots were way under exposed. I don't know what examples you have that gives you the impression you can shoot with no light, but that's my opinion.

The only thing one can do in 'outdoors, no additional light' is shoot at a higher ISO, and perhaps use a 1/40 shutter, if you were shooting at 24 fps.
 
This looks like several issues rolled into one. As others mentioned, the under-exposed footage can be noisier and look a little mushy. It's also really shaky, which can hurt the encoding (especially once it's re-encoded for the web at a low bitrate). None of the shots look particularly in focus, and the lens itself may not be the sharpest. Mostly, I see subjects quickly go out of focus while they move about all over the place, which makes it hard to pin down a particular problem.

Most of the clean footage you see elsewhere is stable, carefully exposed and in focus. You should first lock the camera down on a tripod, or just set it on a solid surface. Then record during the day, properly exposed. Use focus assist on a stationary subject to make sure it's as sharp as possible. Then try another lens. This should rule most of the sources of image degradation.
 
To echo the above, when watching I was thinking...it's underexposed, it's shaky and you might want to try a better lens. Though addressing the first 2 may be enough.
 
zombified said:
This looks like several issues rolled into one. As others mentioned, the under-exposed footage can be noisier and look a little mushy. It's also really shaky, which can hurt the encoding (especially once it's re-encoded for the web at a low bitrate). None of the shots look particularly in focus, and the lens itself may not be the sharpest. Mostly, I see subjects quickly go out of focus while they move about all over the place, which makes it hard to pin down a particular problem.

Most of the clean footage you see elsewhere is stable, carefully exposed and in focus. You should first lock the camera down on a tripod, or just set it on a solid surface. Then record during the day, properly exposed. Use focus assist on a stationary subject to make sure it's as sharp as possible. Then try another lens. This should rule most of the sources of image degradation.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply Zombified and StMad,
Yes, it was shaky because I was freezing and even though I had it on a monopod....i couldn't stop from shaking the monopod. Zombified, you say to put it on a tripod...does that mean that the gh2 doesn't do well if it's not locked down? Are you able to get stable footage from it if it was on a shoulder rig? You guys have any advice (or anyone else for that matter) on how to get more stable footage shots without locking the camera down?
You are right, it's under exposed as well....and here is why. I had the lens open as wide as it would go...and I didn't want to move the ISO above 640 because anything above that and I start to see that stupid horizontal line on the screen. I was hoping to shoot it and then see if I could lighten it in post knowing that it was underexposed. Also, is there something I'm doing wrong with my workflow? I transcoded the original files to ProRes using 5DtoRGB, then imported as proxy media into FCPX. I then exported from FCPX into Vimeo. Is there something else I should be doing to get better quality?
Thank you all for helping me out. I know i'm not very good at this yet but I'm reading everything and shooting and trying to get better. I really appreciate everyone giving advice instead of treating me like an idiot because i don't know completely what i'm doing yet. I'm trying...and I really do appreciate the help.
 
The GH2 does fine without sticks, but handheld on a long zoom like yours is going to cause trouble - even with a shoulder rig. I have a Minolta 80-200 f3.9, and it's dicey at times on my shoulder rig. Really shaky footage like yours will likely give the codec trouble getting a nice quality image. It looks soft because you're wide open on a zoom lens - those need to be down a stop or two to get a crisper image. You'd do well to invest in some cheap vintage primes that do f2 or better if you want to shoot at night, and/or get a sharp image. Finally, if you're editing in FCPX you don't need to transcode to ProRes unless your computer can't handle the native files. Save you some time at best, it won't improve the quality of your image to transcode, but it likely won't hurt it either. Exporting a high bitrate VBR 2-pass will help your final Vimeo clip as well, if you aren't doing this already.
 
It takes a very long time to learn how to shoot well. Many times years of trial and error. Nowadays anybody buys a camera and thinks oh that's easy, I can do that. I have been shooting stills, video and movie film for 38 years and I am still learning. You need a lot of knowledge and tons of practice. And especially you have to know the camera inside out and then your NLE inside out. Judging from the footage you are just on your baby steps as a cinematographer.
 
I had a vivitar 28mm FD mount lens on my GH2 and it definitely gives a softer look compared to the sharper lumix lenses. I actually prefer a more diffused look.
 
all of the advice given so far is on point. If you want to get more stable footage without a tripod you can try a properly counter balanced shoulder mount. However after 85mm (if you are GOOD) and then that shoulder mount isnt going to help that much. Also shooting wide open is a big no no if you want sharp images. Stop down to f 2.8 on a fast lens (1.4) at least... and f4 and 5.6 ideally on most lenses. On your lens 5.6 would have been better.
 
Your footage in general is a little underexposed. Don't be afraid to bump the ISO if you must to get good exposure. It will (usually) turn out cleaner than having a dull/underexposed image to begin. Also, at 320 and 640 ISO, the GH2 has a bug where you will need to go back up to 400/800 (from 320 or 640 respectively) and then back to 320 or 640. It looks like you were shooting on a particularly gray/overcast day, which can make life itself look dull.
I second the recommendation for picking up some cheap yet fast prime lenses. Zooms that cover the wide to telephoto ranges normally do so with many downsides, especially the older lenses. I'm not sure how much I can promote other websites/forums here, but MFlenses is a great resource for finding info/samples.

And as John Caballero mentions, practice makes perfect.
 
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The main thing to do when trying to get better footage is to start simple. You need to look at one issue at a time, because it's hard to tell what to work on when everything is slightly off. That's why I suggest starting on a tripod with a stationary subject in daylight. That gives you all the time you need to make sure focus is perfect, and you can test various apertures, ISO, etc. Then you'll be able to see where the weaknesses are (lens sharpness when wide open, sensor noise, focus...). Don't move the camera around or rack focus until you're sure you have the other stuff sorted out.

I find it really hard to avoid the kind of shaking your footage shows with non-stabilized lenses. OIS helps a lot to get rid of that jittery look, though you'll still see the framing float around a bit. It takes a lot of practice to get this to look like intentional camera movement, rather than just shaking. There are all sorts of things you can try, depending on how you hold the camera, and your shooting style. Try bracing the camera (or yourself) against a wall or other solid object, and hold the camera close to your body. You can also apply some tension with the camera strap to keep the camera somewhat still.

Your workflow sounds fine (transcoding to ProRes), but you may also be able to edit the files natively; that's what I do in CS6 and it works fine. It really just depends on the computer, and I don't have experience with FCPX, but my understanding is it can handle this stuff pretty well, so you may just be adding unnecessary steps. Keep in mind that the source of some of the muddiness is due to the vimeo re-encoding, which you don't have much control over. However, cleaner original files with less noise will encode better, since all those artifacts add complexity to the scene that takes away detail from important stuff.
 
I was going to chime in, but I think everyone who's replied so far has given you really good, constructive feedback (exposure etc).

As a suggestion, try shooting during the day outdoor. You shouldn't see much noise/artifact when you have good ambient light.

Also, if you have access to it, borrow a native Panasonic zoom lens with autofocus to shoot outdoors during daytime and compare the footage. You might see that it's easier to hit focus and since the lens will have image stabilization, it'll give you something to compare with. This might shed light on if it's a question of technique or post-processing.

Good luck! With the right skills, the GH2 is an awesome tool.
 
Jim Simon said:
Turn on OIS, and practice holding the camera very, very still.
Click to expand...

@Jim Simon - The most popular lenses people are using to get great footage don't have OIS (Voigtlander, SLR Magic, Tokina 11-16). I think we've all seen the trailer for Musgo...which the guy shot using old Nikon lenses and a cheap cowboy studio shoulder rig. So I guess my question more specifically is how to get more stable footage without using OIS lenses (the panasonic OIS lenses look very video-y and not filmic) or having to use static tripod shots. I've seen people doing it with this camera and non-OIS lenses all over vimeo....so I know it's possible.

Again, thank you all so much for your advice and guidance! Please keep it coming...it really is helpful!. Also:

@John Caballero - I never once thought that I could just buy this camera and shoot like a pro. That's why this is the first video I've ever posted...because I need help to get better. I've actually spent over a year with this camera learning everything I can from forums, vimeo, etc. and reached a point of frustration because I know my video skills aren't that great and want to know what I can do to make them better.
 
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