help to find: Video Camera (w/ hdmi output) + manual lenses

L

leeo

New member
Hi, everyone

This is my first post here. Very interesting stuff in this community/forum and thats why i am registered now...



Well i am not a Pro but i am looking for this (for stop-motion animation):

*1x video camera (with the specifications on the image bellow)
*2/3 manual lenses (that could be used with the video camera body)

camera_stop.JPG


i am in a low budget... but i am interested to be aware of any value/range of equipment anyway!

thats for helping me out :)

my regards
 
Stop motion and SLR/DSLR's have been friends for quite some time. The very high resolution allows for reframing and great compositing. Now there is the real place in cinema for DSLR's.
 
yes, i know that.... but DSLR (or photography cameras if you wish) they are not conceived technologically perfect for stop-motion (great for stills and now for cinema)... because of the shutter life (example)
with a video camera every single frame doesn´t have to trigger the shutter (because the software its taking care of it).

for the resolution and for so many other things... DSLR they are exceptional.. pretty sure... i am just looking for an alternative (i have my own a Canon 40D)
 
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Interchangeable lens, full raster

Pannasonic HPX370
Sony EX3

$8400 to $9000 naked, no power, memory.

Add adapter for 2/3" lenses

Price goes up from there for other cams.

Grant
 
leeo said:
yes, i know that.... but DSLR (or photography cameras if you wish) they are not conceived technologically perfect for stop-motion (great for stills and now for cinema)... because of the shutter life (example)
with a video camera every single frame doesn´t have to trigger the shutter (because the software its taking care of it).

for the resolution and for so many other things... DSLR they are exceptional.. pretty sure... i am just looking for an alternative (i have my own a Canon 40D)
Click to expand...


I'm not sure I follow. You seem to prefer an electronic shutter versus a mechanical one? That does not really benefit the process any. I mean, cinema cameras use mechanical shutters 24fps all day long. I'd love for you to clarify.
 
i am going to be more specifique:


Regarding the HD video camera (so far using HDMI interface (with blackmagic design capture card) looks better alternative)
camera.JPG

and the cinematography features (provided by the software)
cine.JPG

i have "signed it" with a blue line. means i think some of this features are available for DSLR probably not with Video Cameras. (i will have to contact the developer for clarify that issue).


so far those cameras Grant refered they seem to have the features that i am looking for (but no HDMI plug output, just Firewire output).

Now looking at the value/cost comparing those to a Canon DSLR (without ignoring the compatibility features) i could adquire various DSLR for one those.




"...You seem to prefer an electronic shutter versus a mechanical one?..."

focus, aperture, shutter speed and everything else should be "fully manual". For this reason i mencioned the manual lenses also.



The developer says: "..Graphical camera control: Adjust your still camera's shutter speed, aperture, ISO with visual sliders..."

Like i said, i am not sure yet if i could manage this through video cameras!


...as i guess DSLR its the away to go...


................


Even if i stay with the DSLR... i am still looking for manual lenses.

*would be Cinema lenses (manual aperture/iris & focus ring) recomended for use with my Canon 40D or a newer full frame Canon DSLR.


for my case i don´t need more than 55mm (i guess!)


thanks :)
 
leeo said:
Even if i stay with the DSLR... i am still looking for manual lenses.

*would be Cinema lenses (manual aperture/iris & focus ring) recomended for use with my Canon 40D or a newer full frame Canon DSLR.
Click to expand...


For 'stop motion' photography(*), I have no idea why you would want an HDMI output, attendant digitizers, etc. rather than just use the DSLR's image capture capability. Depending on the model, you could get Firewire capture, rather than capture to a CF/SD card.

With a DSLR you get a couple of things... 1) cheaper price than any 'video' solution for the resolution (like 4K these days) with current still DSLR's deliver. 2) can capture in 'raw' mode and allow for far more manipulation/color grading with less artifacts than any currently available digitial cinema/video camera for any price 'mortals' can afford.

As for lenses, I believe 'manual' lenses are highly recommended. In "Corpse Bride"(2005) Canon 1D bodies were used, but Nikon lenses were the primes.

Just for clarity... "stop motion" is on the order of Jan Svenkmajer, the afore mentioned Tim Burton's "Corpse Bride", and involves making still images where each object that moves is adjusted by small increments. The point being, there is no need for an actual 'video' camera. All that is needed is a method to capture as sequence of still images... and plenty of time in between each still image taken to make the adjustments to the puppets, objects, whever that appear to move...
 
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"...I have no idea why you would want an HDMI output, attendant digitizers, etc..."

The point of using HDMI output its only thinking of using it for video cameras.... because for DSLR's image capture capability have great support.


In Henry Sellick "Coraline" they also used several a kind of surveillance video camera (this is documented in the web.. i dont remember where a read it!?....) with a price not for "mortals"

Well i guess i will step for the manual lenses instead and maintain the DSLR body.... but any recommendation for video/cinema manual camera lenses for DSLR (in my case Canon 40D (not full frame))?
Preference for Wide Angle and Macro type...


btw: its Svankmajer, not Svenkmajer... czech stop motion its great stuff! ;)
 
you could get a gh-1 or Sony nex5/3 which have electronic shutters and thus no physical shutter to actually brake down though they may still have a shelf life of an amount of photos they can take haven't looked that up.
 
On Coraline the DP was Pete Kozachik, ASC.

To quote him from American Cinematographer:
"Before hiring on, I sought a way to improve on limitations of digital SLR's we encountered on Corpse Bride. On that show, fuzzy video taps images were animators' most common complaint. Most promising was the MegaPlus EC11000, a machine vision camera based on a 4k Kodak CCD sensor. It sported these features:
-Able to double as its own tap, outputting sharp 1k or 2k mono as fast frame rates
-Thermoelectric sensor cooling for low noise in long exposures
-Physically large 36x24mm sensor
-Among camera tested, its response curves were most similar to film
-Rugged, machinable aluminum body
-Nikkor F mount
-Sensor housed in dust-free, inert-gas filled chamber
-Software development documentation for custom applications

Unlike DSLR's, each camera had to be tethered to a smokin' fast PC (running custom application) that grabbed production frames and served as a higher-res animator guide and color display to check lighting...
Click to expand...
This all really seems like overkill (IMO) for any project smaller than a full scale feature film. The 'limitations' from Corpsebride doesn't seem to really make or break any aspect of the filming, rather just allows a slight improvements on an already pretty proven and professional workflow. Notice the problems were common 'complaints'. Also remember that Corpsebride's RELEASE was almost 5 years ago...a film that took years to make, thus those camera limitations would have been circa early 2000's. Coraline took years to make, 83 weeks of that for principal photography. The technology used then, or the DSLR technology not used then, has changed, so I would revisit your options available TODAY. You might find the biggest complaint of a good output video source may not be a big complaint any more. I'm glad you are really reaching for the stars here, but I have a feeling a DSLR will be the cost effective and performance satisfying camera you'll settle on.

For more info on the EC11000 read this PDF: http://www.princetoninstruments.com...inceton_Instruments_MEGAPLUS_EC11000_A1_1.pdf

All and all, Coraline was comprised of 38 MegaPlus EC11000s and Eight Nikon D80's.... along with some 'live action' effects done on a RedOne camera. None of which utilize a mechanical shutter. Please don't misread that for manual shutter.

If you can find any of these individuals, you should pick their brains:

Pete Kozachik, ASC
John Ashlee
Paul Gentry
Mark Stewart
Peter Sorg
Chris Peterson
Brian Van't Hul
Peter Williams
Frank Passingham


You should check out American Cinematographer October 2005... the issue features TWO articles on stop animation film: The Corpse Bride and Wallace and Grommit Curse of the Were-Rabbit.

Corpsebride was shot on Canon EOS-1D Mark II, converted 35mm motion picture film camera, a canon XL-1 and Arri D-20****
While W&G was shot on a 35mm celluloid stills, and a converted 35mm motion picture film camera using Cooke Zooms.
Nightmare Before Christmas was 35mm film.

To go on about all those cameras: Corpsebride was shot on the Canon DSLR's almost entirely. The ground fog and other effects were shot on highspeed celluloid film. The low fps effects used frame bursts from the DSLR's, and small elements were composited mini-dv. The Arri D-20 was used because they were given one for free on one day of effects shooting.
 
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http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/member.php?61328-S.-MatthewsS. Matthews: Thanks for the reference. I didn´t know about the Nex3/5. I was searhing then.. and both Nex and GH-1 seen to have very interesting features on their own budget (which is low).

Ryan Patrick: Thats MegaPlus i was talking about! Thanks also for helping me out



Really fine forum. I will come back continuing searching more on this medium. As an amateur i think i don´t have much to tell beyond my own point of view... but i have so many to learn...

Regards



 
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