if you are her :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Thomas, seems you alrady have been through all this once with success.
HELP!!!!!!! I received lots of funding for my film, Now I have cold feet.VERY NERVOUS
- Thread starter AnnaThomas
- Start date
GaryinCalifornia
Veteran
ah never mind...
Tony Ferguson
New member
Fishing Expedition?
Fishing Expedition?
So has anyone else gone to the site and taken a look: http://icywire.com/forum
I sadly suspect this is a fishing expedition based on what I observed at this website--it even has links in its header leading outside the site to 3rd party advertisers. I also find it incredibly hard to believe that $100,000 would show up without any contracts involved? Anyone else find this curious?
Tony
Fishing Expedition?
So has anyone else gone to the site and taken a look: http://icywire.com/forum
I sadly suspect this is a fishing expedition based on what I observed at this website--it even has links in its header leading outside the site to 3rd party advertisers. I also find it incredibly hard to believe that $100,000 would show up without any contracts involved? Anyone else find this curious?
Tony
AnnaThomas
Member
@Tony, I am not too sure of your aim, but This seems to be going in an entirely different direction.
Why the money was given to me NOT YOUR CONCERN and I am not here to explain it to you.
I am new here. I don't know the rules but I am not trying to break any.
The I am here for ADVICE. Advice on what to do next. Anything else, Save it.
I don't spend my entire day in front of a computer screen, I have 4 kids and things to do.
Anyone with advice for me, please offer it. Thank you in advance.
Anna
Why the money was given to me NOT YOUR CONCERN and I am not here to explain it to you.
I am new here. I don't know the rules but I am not trying to break any.
The I am here for ADVICE. Advice on what to do next. Anything else, Save it.
I don't spend my entire day in front of a computer screen, I have 4 kids and things to do.
Anyone with advice for me, please offer it. Thank you in advance.
Anna
Nathyn
Low Budget Ninja
I would have to ask what kind of film it is. $100k is just enough to make a great film or get you into trouble. If Doc's on the case you should do fine. He knows his stuff.
-Nate
Loki
Veteran
Yet you are asking advice from people that spend all day in front of computer..
Oh sweet irony...
I can't fathom someone dropping $100 000 on you knowing that you have zero experience... unless you lied to the investor.
PS: I don't have anything useful to tell you that hasn't already been stated..
PPS: if this isn't a scam or a joke.. you need to write a book explaining how you were able to so easily get money from someone.. mind would = blown.
Doc Bernard
Indie Arms Member
Guys, let's tone it back a few notches. Sure, on the surface, this sounds phantasmic. Even scammish. Believe me, I am there too. But sometimes, rarely, things could click for an idea and a project. Is it rare as poo-poo (LOL, hate being censored, so I used the replacement word)? Yes it is. Is it absolutely unheard of? No.
Isn't that the thing we all dream about? And if it happens for someone, do you attack them, or does it empower your thoughts that it could happen for you?
I cannot vouch for Anna yet, but am willing to listen to what she has to say. I mean, what if you were in the same situation, as stated and it were true? And a bit of sage advice typed into a small box on your computer screen, what does it actually cost you? If it comes down that this is scam/poaching exercise, fine. But if it is real.......
Isn't that the thing we all dream about? And if it happens for someone, do you attack them, or does it empower your thoughts that it could happen for you?
I cannot vouch for Anna yet, but am willing to listen to what she has to say. I mean, what if you were in the same situation, as stated and it were true? And a bit of sage advice typed into a small box on your computer screen, what does it actually cost you? If it comes down that this is scam/poaching exercise, fine. But if it is real.......
Last edited:
AnnaThomas
Member
Yeah, my husband spoke with Doc for a few minutes today.
Sounds like he knows his stuff.
I was not meaning anything negative about spending all day on the computer.
Just saying my kids won't allow that with all the time it takes with school stuff and activities.
As for the money, people get investments all of the time for ideas they have.
I was just lucky enough to catch the right person at the right time.
BTW: This is not a "how I got the money" thread.
And I never said I have zero experience. I have done a few shorts, I know my cameras well.
I just came here because I was told that this is where I need to start.
And I need to learn more about the business side of things.
Sounds like he knows his stuff.
I was not meaning anything negative about spending all day on the computer.
Just saying my kids won't allow that with all the time it takes with school stuff and activities.
As for the money, people get investments all of the time for ideas they have.
I was just lucky enough to catch the right person at the right time.
BTW: This is not a "how I got the money" thread.
And I never said I have zero experience. I have done a few shorts, I know my cameras well.
I just came here because I was told that this is where I need to start.
And I need to learn more about the business side of things.
Doc Bernard
Indie Arms Member
Nathyn, Ullanta.......thanks. I am just a guy that's been around the block a few times. And been hit by many of the passing semi's, buses and taxis, LOL.
David W. Jones
Veteran
I met a doc filmmaker a while back, that while on a flight he had a conversation with 3 gentlemen who always wanted to make a film. They invested $3million! Sadly I dropped making my last film when I was unable to raise the $700thousand needed to produce it.
While $100grand sounds like a bunch of money, it can go very quickly if you don't set your budget breakdown accordingly. A $1500 a day crew member for a 20 day shoot is $30grand right there.
I would also advise you to hire people who know their craft, rather than using people that will be learning on the job if you are serious about this film.
All the Best!
Dave
While $100grand sounds like a bunch of money, it can go very quickly if you don't set your budget breakdown accordingly. A $1500 a day crew member for a 20 day shoot is $30grand right there.
I would also advise you to hire people who know their craft, rather than using people that will be learning on the job if you are serious about this film.
All the Best!
Dave
prexdealer
Well-known member
I'll assume all of this is legit.
I won't say what I have invested in or done because the last time I mentioned something, I got emailed by people asking me for money.
Speak with some of the experienced individuals here like Doc. Realize at some point helpful people deserve to be rewarded for giving you advice. In other words, if you call someone and get 10 hours worth of consultation it would be nice if you gave them something. When I first started investing in film, I paid for objective advice on films I was investing in.
If you are concerned about making a profit - I mean truly are - then unless you have the most amazing comedy, drama - you are better off doing an action, sci-fi, horror. Something in which the genre will carry the movie in the event the script and the acting are not good.
I cannot tell if you have a script done yet. That would be a top priority. If you have cast as you mentioned then it seems like you would have a script already. I say that because not every actor is good for every script. In other words, a comedy actor wouldn't necessarily be great for a drama. So if you have your actors ready then it implies you have a script you want to shoot. But you wrote that you needed to write your script. So I am confused. Don't make the mistake that was made on one of my movies when a friend was cast, big mistake. Be objective - have a casting call, get the right talent. Unless the investor is making you put someone in the film, which happens.
You'll need a strong line producer to help you organize and budget.
You'll need an llc and a financing agreement or PPM depending. I have done both for different movies I have invested in. My financing agreement was only 4 pages since I was the sole financier. The PPM was like 50 pages. You'll need to cover the waterfall payout, etc.
You will prbably want to understand sec 181 and understand how to get that grandfathered - see filmclosings.com recent article.
And with all respect, I am trying to help here - as you can see by the comments I am making I am trying to be helpful - you may not want to be so defensive. Producing a film is tough work, need to stay calm and steady through it.
6 Months is a short window, you will need to allocate money for post rather than trying to get favors on it. One of my movies is in post - it is being done on favors with studio connections but I can't rush them since I am not paying up front.
If you go SAG you will need someone who knows how to deal with SAG and the bond and the fringes.
But the best chance you have to pay back your investor it is to have a strong script, lots of planning and a good genre. AND DON'T CHEAP OUT ON SOUND. It costs a lot and takes a lot of time to fix sound. Make sure you get a good sound person. Bad sound makes people think bad movie faster than a bad picture or acting.
I would make friends with some sales people and distributors. Hate to say it, much like film festivals, who you know matters.
I'd ask myself if it is achievable, you mentioned you had 4 kids. A movie becomes your life, I hope this investor is understanding.
Join filmspecific.com if you want to learn about distribution. For 100k you can probably spend 20 to 25k for a sort of name that can help sell the movie. If you go to filmspecific you can find lists or ask for an idea on who might be affordable for your script. Once you have a script.
Read a few of the threads for certain movies like Corrado, Superseeds, Matt sconce has a film thread...and many more. See how hard the journey was. I just want you to be prepared. It is like giving birth to a child, or so I have heard. I have never given birth but I have had my share of ups and downs on movie investing. And I have been intimately involved with those teams and I have seen the challenges first hand.
This money is non-recourse, right?
Good luck!
I won't say what I have invested in or done because the last time I mentioned something, I got emailed by people asking me for money.
Speak with some of the experienced individuals here like Doc. Realize at some point helpful people deserve to be rewarded for giving you advice. In other words, if you call someone and get 10 hours worth of consultation it would be nice if you gave them something. When I first started investing in film, I paid for objective advice on films I was investing in.
If you are concerned about making a profit - I mean truly are - then unless you have the most amazing comedy, drama - you are better off doing an action, sci-fi, horror. Something in which the genre will carry the movie in the event the script and the acting are not good.
I cannot tell if you have a script done yet. That would be a top priority. If you have cast as you mentioned then it seems like you would have a script already. I say that because not every actor is good for every script. In other words, a comedy actor wouldn't necessarily be great for a drama. So if you have your actors ready then it implies you have a script you want to shoot. But you wrote that you needed to write your script. So I am confused. Don't make the mistake that was made on one of my movies when a friend was cast, big mistake. Be objective - have a casting call, get the right talent. Unless the investor is making you put someone in the film, which happens.
You'll need a strong line producer to help you organize and budget.
You'll need an llc and a financing agreement or PPM depending. I have done both for different movies I have invested in. My financing agreement was only 4 pages since I was the sole financier. The PPM was like 50 pages. You'll need to cover the waterfall payout, etc.
You will prbably want to understand sec 181 and understand how to get that grandfathered - see filmclosings.com recent article.
And with all respect, I am trying to help here - as you can see by the comments I am making I am trying to be helpful - you may not want to be so defensive. Producing a film is tough work, need to stay calm and steady through it.
6 Months is a short window, you will need to allocate money for post rather than trying to get favors on it. One of my movies is in post - it is being done on favors with studio connections but I can't rush them since I am not paying up front.
If you go SAG you will need someone who knows how to deal with SAG and the bond and the fringes.
But the best chance you have to pay back your investor it is to have a strong script, lots of planning and a good genre. AND DON'T CHEAP OUT ON SOUND. It costs a lot and takes a lot of time to fix sound. Make sure you get a good sound person. Bad sound makes people think bad movie faster than a bad picture or acting.
I would make friends with some sales people and distributors. Hate to say it, much like film festivals, who you know matters.
I'd ask myself if it is achievable, you mentioned you had 4 kids. A movie becomes your life, I hope this investor is understanding.
Join filmspecific.com if you want to learn about distribution. For 100k you can probably spend 20 to 25k for a sort of name that can help sell the movie. If you go to filmspecific you can find lists or ask for an idea on who might be affordable for your script. Once you have a script.
Read a few of the threads for certain movies like Corrado, Superseeds, Matt sconce has a film thread...and many more. See how hard the journey was. I just want you to be prepared. It is like giving birth to a child, or so I have heard. I have never given birth but I have had my share of ups and downs on movie investing. And I have been intimately involved with those teams and I have seen the challenges first hand.
This money is non-recourse, right?
Good luck!
Last edited:
prexdealer
Well-known member
I agree it is a great opportunity, but if the investor is really being an investor then the producer/director has some responsibility to do the best they can to recover the money, so that means making some decisions that ensure (to the best ability possible) the commercial success. Many directors think their movies are special and they actually suck. For example, for one of my movies that invested in the director turned in his cut thinking it was some masterpiece. It was alright, but there was some other footage we wanted to use so we re-cut part of it. So if a person is being offered money and there is an expectation to make money and that expectation is made clear up front then, imho, you do have a burden to take care of the investor.
If the person says, "here is a 100k, make a movie and I don't care if I ever see a penny." Then I wouldn't care so much.
But this investor, in this particular instance, is saying make a profit. So with all respect to Anna, if she can't figure it out where it has a reasonable chance for success, maybe she shouldn't take the money.
Yes, if the investor is sophisticated and understands that the movie business is risky and if he or she knows what he or she is doing, then the investor takes that risk. But if Anna, with all respect to Anna, said that she was an expert and could guarantee a profit, then the investor has the right to expect to success. Since Anna doesn't want to make it a thread about how she got the money, I will respect that and not ask how this conversation went down. But there are some legal issues if some misrepresentations were made about what she can do.
In one of my movies, the whole first meeting was about how I am going to get the money back. I didn't care about the hype. I don't like hypey people. If the producers I met would have hyped me they would never have saw a penny (I raised money and invested in the deal - the people I know would never give a penny for one of my deals if I didn't also invest in it - which is wildly different than how most movie people look at film financing which is fund my dreams). But they didn't hype me, they had real connections, experiences, etc. This is a business and if we are discussing business and not charity, then you better give me some rational answers and show you have a brain.
Unfortunately, most people don't have a brain. It is all about instant gratification, 5 seconds of youtube fame, enron, housing speculation, 10,000 friends on facebook though you only know 5 in real life, etc. I know I sound like an angry old man, but I am neither old nor angry, just have a perspective that it isn't all about me and my actions do impact others and I would like to make them positive ones.
Anyway, I am off my soapbox.
Thanks for reading
If the person says, "here is a 100k, make a movie and I don't care if I ever see a penny." Then I wouldn't care so much.
But this investor, in this particular instance, is saying make a profit. So with all respect to Anna, if she can't figure it out where it has a reasonable chance for success, maybe she shouldn't take the money.
Yes, if the investor is sophisticated and understands that the movie business is risky and if he or she knows what he or she is doing, then the investor takes that risk. But if Anna, with all respect to Anna, said that she was an expert and could guarantee a profit, then the investor has the right to expect to success. Since Anna doesn't want to make it a thread about how she got the money, I will respect that and not ask how this conversation went down. But there are some legal issues if some misrepresentations were made about what she can do.
In one of my movies, the whole first meeting was about how I am going to get the money back. I didn't care about the hype. I don't like hypey people. If the producers I met would have hyped me they would never have saw a penny (I raised money and invested in the deal - the people I know would never give a penny for one of my deals if I didn't also invest in it - which is wildly different than how most movie people look at film financing which is fund my dreams). But they didn't hype me, they had real connections, experiences, etc. This is a business and if we are discussing business and not charity, then you better give me some rational answers and show you have a brain.
Unfortunately, most people don't have a brain. It is all about instant gratification, 5 seconds of youtube fame, enron, housing speculation, 10,000 friends on facebook though you only know 5 in real life, etc. I know I sound like an angry old man, but I am neither old nor angry, just have a perspective that it isn't all about me and my actions do impact others and I would like to make them positive ones.
Anyway, I am off my soapbox.
Thanks for reading
Last edited:
PopcornFlix
Well-known member
I'm going to assume this is legit as well.
I agree with prexdealer for the most part, except about Section 181 of Title 26. The "grandfathering" service offered by Jeff Steele appears to me to be a profit center for him, rather than a boon for low-budget filmmakers. ($5000 for a day of shooting a dialogue scene+ $6500 for drawing up an investor contract.) If you read the IRS bulletin regarding Section 181, you'll find that although you can "grandfather" your production in at the last minute, the tax deduction only applies to investment money actually spent in 2011. And by "spent," they make it very clear that you have to hire people and pay salaries. So qualifying for Section 181 is mostly useful for productions that are going to wrap by Dec 31, 2011.
Oh, and the IRS bulletin also spells out their "reinterpretation" of the law. The deduction, which up to now was deductible against ordinary income like wages, is now only applicable as a passive loss. That means that the deduction only does the investor any good if they have big dividends or capital gains to apply the movie deduction against. Absent big passive gains, the tax deduction from Section 181 is worthless.
Back to the advice:
Don't Spend Anything Until You Absolutely Must. $100k can slip through your fingers at an alarming rate. Guard their money like every dollar was your own child.
Talk to distributors first. Take your demo reel, and your script if you have it. Otherwise, mock up a poster in photoshop, or ask a friend to do it for free. See if you can get a distribution deal. The distributor is the company that's going to sell your movie to the public. Without distribution, you won't make the money back.
Distributors love stars. A star's face on the DVD box makes it easier to sell. If you have contacts to known actors (meaning they have fans and get recognized on the street), try to get someone involved. A $100k film with an '80s TV star is a lot easier to sell than a $100k full of nobodies. At $100k, you can't afford to pay the Known Actor more than SAG Ultra Low Budget Scale. Expect that they will want a share of the proceeds. Try to negotiate them into "second position," so their share kicks in right after you pay the investor back.
If you can't get a distribution deal for your picture, ask the distributor what you could make for $100k that they would distribute. Often, they will happily tell you what kind of pictures they needs. Many smaller distributors send movie posters to their buyers around the world, and get commitments for the movie without a script or a cast. If the distributors don't snap up your movie immediately, it's not something they can sell.
Decide right now to be the least experienced person on the crew. Hire experienced people who will make sure that your inexperience won't destroy the production.
Learn the basics of the business. Read this book. It will teach you the bare essentials of who you have to hire and what you have to do to get the movie done and on the market. Once you know the basics, hire an experienced producer who will do all that stuff for you. You learned the basics so you have a sense of what's supposed to happen.
Plan, Plan, Plan. And then -- Plan again, because things will come up that ruin your plan. The less money you have in the budget, the more planning you need to do. At $100k, you don't have a moment to waste. The whole project needs to be specific, prepared and ready to execute. While some filmmakers use the production metaphor of fighting a war, making a low-budget feature is really like a special ops campaign. Every day is a tactical assault, moving fast, working the plan, and adjusting as things go haywire. Every day is about winning ugly and getting what you came for.
Make sure you decide why you're doing this. This is going to be a very challenging production, and it will probably be hard to sell. Decide before you start why you want to do it, and what defines success for you. What has to happen in order for you to feel like you succeeded? If you know that going in, you will be able to distinguish from the important and unimportant battles.
Keep your investor informed. Unless this is a doting relative, lover or BFF who will forgive you for losing their $100k, keep them in the loop. That includes telling them when things are going badly. Don't spin it, or pretend the manure you just fell into was roses. Tell them the truth, and explain what steps you are taking to fix it, and get their investment to make a profit. If you keep their trust and respect, they will listen to your next pitch, even if you fail on this one.
I am currently booked on a long-term project, so you can't hire me. If you want to ask me some questions, PM me.
I wish you good luck on this very big adventure.
I agree with prexdealer for the most part, except about Section 181 of Title 26. The "grandfathering" service offered by Jeff Steele appears to me to be a profit center for him, rather than a boon for low-budget filmmakers. ($5000 for a day of shooting a dialogue scene+ $6500 for drawing up an investor contract.) If you read the IRS bulletin regarding Section 181, you'll find that although you can "grandfather" your production in at the last minute, the tax deduction only applies to investment money actually spent in 2011. And by "spent," they make it very clear that you have to hire people and pay salaries. So qualifying for Section 181 is mostly useful for productions that are going to wrap by Dec 31, 2011.
Oh, and the IRS bulletin also spells out their "reinterpretation" of the law. The deduction, which up to now was deductible against ordinary income like wages, is now only applicable as a passive loss. That means that the deduction only does the investor any good if they have big dividends or capital gains to apply the movie deduction against. Absent big passive gains, the tax deduction from Section 181 is worthless.
Back to the advice:
Don't Spend Anything Until You Absolutely Must. $100k can slip through your fingers at an alarming rate. Guard their money like every dollar was your own child.
Talk to distributors first. Take your demo reel, and your script if you have it. Otherwise, mock up a poster in photoshop, or ask a friend to do it for free. See if you can get a distribution deal. The distributor is the company that's going to sell your movie to the public. Without distribution, you won't make the money back.
Distributors love stars. A star's face on the DVD box makes it easier to sell. If you have contacts to known actors (meaning they have fans and get recognized on the street), try to get someone involved. A $100k film with an '80s TV star is a lot easier to sell than a $100k full of nobodies. At $100k, you can't afford to pay the Known Actor more than SAG Ultra Low Budget Scale. Expect that they will want a share of the proceeds. Try to negotiate them into "second position," so their share kicks in right after you pay the investor back.
If you can't get a distribution deal for your picture, ask the distributor what you could make for $100k that they would distribute. Often, they will happily tell you what kind of pictures they needs. Many smaller distributors send movie posters to their buyers around the world, and get commitments for the movie without a script or a cast. If the distributors don't snap up your movie immediately, it's not something they can sell.
Decide right now to be the least experienced person on the crew. Hire experienced people who will make sure that your inexperience won't destroy the production.
Learn the basics of the business. Read this book. It will teach you the bare essentials of who you have to hire and what you have to do to get the movie done and on the market. Once you know the basics, hire an experienced producer who will do all that stuff for you. You learned the basics so you have a sense of what's supposed to happen.
Plan, Plan, Plan. And then -- Plan again, because things will come up that ruin your plan. The less money you have in the budget, the more planning you need to do. At $100k, you don't have a moment to waste. The whole project needs to be specific, prepared and ready to execute. While some filmmakers use the production metaphor of fighting a war, making a low-budget feature is really like a special ops campaign. Every day is a tactical assault, moving fast, working the plan, and adjusting as things go haywire. Every day is about winning ugly and getting what you came for.
Make sure you decide why you're doing this. This is going to be a very challenging production, and it will probably be hard to sell. Decide before you start why you want to do it, and what defines success for you. What has to happen in order for you to feel like you succeeded? If you know that going in, you will be able to distinguish from the important and unimportant battles.
Keep your investor informed. Unless this is a doting relative, lover or BFF who will forgive you for losing their $100k, keep them in the loop. That includes telling them when things are going badly. Don't spin it, or pretend the manure you just fell into was roses. Tell them the truth, and explain what steps you are taking to fix it, and get their investment to make a profit. If you keep their trust and respect, they will listen to your next pitch, even if you fail on this one.
I am currently booked on a long-term project, so you can't hire me. If you want to ask me some questions, PM me.
I wish you good luck on this very big adventure.
Doc Bernard
Indie Arms Member
Sound familiar, Anna? I am not the only that knows this valuable info. Any one of these guys can assist you in your film. But you need someone to help you. And get them on board as soon as possible. LOL, except Popcorn. He's booked. 
rogar-BigGrin(DBG)
rogar-BigGrin(DBG)
Nathyn
Low Budget Ninja
I'm not sure, but I have a feeling Deborah "Debbie" Gibson has a new manager, considering how she's popping up in things and I bet you can get her for a few grand a day (I'm thinking $3000 - $5000 a day). Don't quote me on that. She's fresh off of K. Perry's TGIF video so people are happy to she her face again. I don't know if that made her value rise, but yea. Shoot with her for a day, have her on the phone, walking down the street with the lead and whatever else you can get her to do in a day or two that you can edit in across time. LOL. Seriously, put the word out with the smaller agents that you're looking for SAG core actors with names. They'll want to come to you discreetly. You'll get a deal if you get someone whose had "problems", but wants to come back to the insustry...provided their agent/manager wants to deal with them. And try to find out what they charge before you make the offer (in case they're charging less than your offer).
-Nate
Last edited:
David W. Richardson
Chapelgrove Films
Hey prexdealer, can I have some money? rogar-BigGrin(DBG)
Anna, my question is -- how did you manage to secure such a great chunk of money in the first place? I'd love to learn how to do that.
rogar-BigGrin(DBG)Anna, my question is -- how did you manage to secure such a great chunk of money in the first place? I'd love to learn how to do that.