HELP: Clean SDI to Atomos with Panasonic EVA-1

S

Spiral

Active member
Anyone know how to get a clean SDI signal out to Atomos from the Eva-1? Today, I was on a job and all the footage camera info was burned in! This
is NOT HDMI. It is SDI, and the menu for the EVA is circa 1985.

For %$*& sake, I've been looking for hours, and contacted several DP friends. None of them knows. Thanks Panasonic!
I swear, these companies really must be filled with nothing but technical people. The anti-intuitive nomenclature of this camera is mind-numbing.
 
...after 4 hours, for anyone else who wants to know, PLEASE let me save you the hassle:

[OUTPUT SETTINGS] - [SDI OUT] - [INDICATOR DISPLAY] - [OFF]

I swear this menu was made for Martians!
 
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Seemed pretty intuitive to me...
First time I plugged the camera into my OLED monitor I saw the camera info on the display, realized this was there for those who wanted to use the SDI output to go to a VF, and went to output settings and turned it off so I wouldn't have to worry about OLED burn-in. Took about 1 minute to figure out. Many of the larger cameras have multiple SDI outputs - usually one where data display can be on or off, and another where there is no display option. Of course with a smaller, lighter camera like the EVA1, having only one SDI output keeps things a little smaller (and less power hungry) - so it makes sense to have the display output overlays switchable.
And yesterday I actually used the output to record externally on an old NanoFlash in 1080 while recording internally in 3840x2160 - so the producer would have an easy-to-view option that would work for reviewing footage on a slower laptop.

Which actually brings up my question -- What is the best software player option for 4K / QHD material? The files play very choppily on my 13" MBP. VLC playback is awful. Premiere Pro is marginal, and my clients may not have Adobe on their laptops. Is there a Panasonic player software that works like Sony's Catalyst Browse? Or something even simpler?
 
OnSet said:
Which actually brings up my question -- What is the best software player option for 4K / QHD material? The files play very choppily on my 13" MBP. VLC playback is awful. Premiere Pro is marginal, and my clients may not have Adobe on their laptops. Is there a Panasonic player software that works like Sony's Catalyst Browse? Or something even simpler?
Click to expand...

Sounds like it's just a straight-up hardware/throughput limitation. I know this will add some extra time off the top, but you should consider using the proxy workflow. On balance, it will speed up your work phenomenally, plus you'll have relatively lightweight proxy files you can give to your client (in ProRes, if you like). When setup to ingest, all you do is import your clips as normal, and Premiere will send your clips to Media Encoder to transcode in the background. It will then "attach" (link) the proxy clips to the original files, and with a simple the click of a button, you can toggle between proxy and source files anytime. It always renders out using your original source clips.

You can also setup your own ingest preset to add LUTs, TC overlays, etc. to the proxy files. I have one setup with the VLog to 709 LUT, so I don't have to edit while looking at the clean, ungraded log footage (as I later send my final sequence to Resolve). Also, it's nice to have a light version with rec709 baked in if the client wants to have copies.

PM me if you need help setting this up. Adobe's documentation is a little wonky on this.
 
Edit Ready will convert the files but also play them back - maybe try that. VLC works for me but I have the 15"
 
Thanks for the suggestions! I'll give Edit Ready a look. I'm not the editor, so it's not appropriate for me to create proxies in Premiere, nor as DP do I have time during the day to do much, other than occasionally start a transfer. (Though I suppose my Nanoflash recordings could also be used as a proxy?)
Plus, when they call wrap at 5pm, producer and director want to be out the door before 5:30, each with a full transfer of the footage for the day that they can look at on their own computers later in the evening. The advantage of the Sony players was that they were free and cross-platform. Part of converting clients over to a new camera is trying to show them how easy the transition will be!
 
Spiral said:
...afer 4 hours, for anyone else who wants to know, PLEASE let me save you the hassle:

[OUTPUT SETTINGS] - [SDI OUT] - [INDICATOR DISPLAY] - [OFF]
Click to expand...

I do not have an EVA1, but that makes sense to me. I should also say that I've been in the Panasonic camera ecosystem for well over a decade, dating back to the original VariCam.

Their menu systems are not perfect, but if you've used their other cameras before, some of the "Martian" stuff makes sense. Also, and people don't like hearing this for some reason, it never hurts to read the manual.
 
When you first press the MENU button, OUTPUT SETTINGS is on the main page that initially appears on screen. When you select it, the first item on the page is SDI OUT.

Honestly, how much simpler do you expect it to be? Also, the Atomos recorders all have a screen that shows you the image (only one that doesn't was the HD model that was HDMI only). How did you record without noticing that the info display was on the image?
 
Thats pretty much how every camera I know works in that respect.


Mitch Gross said:
When you first press the MENU button, OUTPUT SETTINGS is on the main page that initially appears on screen. When you select it, the first item on the page is SDI OUT.

Honestly, how much simpler do you expect it to be? Also, the Atomos recorders all have a screen that shows you the image (only one that doesn't was the HD model that was HDMI only). How did you record without noticing that the info display was on the image?
Click to expand...
 
So much to respond to, so little time.

Coming from other cameras, such as the DVX, HVX, and Canon ecosphere, these menus are NOT intuitive - take that for however you like it...or not. I know you don't want to hear that Mitch, but for folks like me who have not worked with too many high-end cameras (RED being the wondrous exception,) digging through the menus and manual after a gig at 1am is not the way I like to operate. Yes, I eventually need to know the full operation of the camera, but I am honestly having buyers remorse now having passed on the c200 and the fs7 for this one, to include the low light capability of the EVA (I know Sony isn't much better in the menu dept)

Run&Gun, I downloaded and DID read as much as could of the manual - had to take it to a copy shop to get the full manual so I don't have to be in the field learning the camera with my iPhone. I promise you, I wouldn't waste all of your time if I didn't spend endless hours trying to figure it out, digging through different menus, setting and factory resetting the camera after not being able to remember what I adjusted (at 12a.)

Icarus, well no, not exactly. I had to go through several settings that dealt with SDI, and then resetting them before I finally found the proper function to do so in the manual. The DVX/HVX wasn't as difficult to navigate like that, and working with RED was an intuitive dream.

So, take these comments with a grain of salt. I know everyone loves to gush over new cameras, but I'll be damned if I am not going to come here and express some of my frustrations (Mitch or no Mitch ;) as I attempt to navigate a new camera. This is how people learn, and this is how we can help each other.

Thanks for the responses!
 
Mitch Gross said:
When you first press the MENU button, OUTPUT SETTINGS is on the main page that initially appears on screen. When you select it, the first item on the page is SDI OUT.

Honestly, how much simpler do you expect it to be? Also, the Atomos recorders all have a screen that shows you the image (only one that doesn't was the HD model that was HDMI only). How did you record without noticing that the info display was on the image?
Click to expand...

The ATOMOS will still record over those settings, and having used HDMI out on Canon before, the ATOMOS Ninja/Canon never recorded those overlays. I will be willing to own that I have not worked extensively with SDI out, and that I am still learning cameras all the time. I still think that some of my concerns about the menu are legit. The jury is still out, and believe me, I've already put some nice test footage on Youtube to help Panasonic out. I won't hesitate to come here to work out an issue though, and express 'concerns' from a past Panasonic user. I'd rather do that then film a critical review on Youtube.
 
Spiral -
I understand your frustration when something new doesn't match what you're expecting. I've been put in the 'strange new camera' position many times myself, most often when a producer shows up with a camera model I've never seen before and wants me to 'make it match' the main camera and have it all set to go during the half hour that's been allotted to load-in setup and lighting before the first shot of the morning.
On the other hand, we all have the tendency to want to use our 'new toys' before we've fully learned them. I spent a full week during the holidays 'playing with' my EVA1 before using it on a shoot - including a day of A-B'ing it with an Amira (and a bunch of color charts, gray scales and real life situations) so I can have it ready to use it as a B-cam in that configuration.
However - take Mitch's point about the screen on the Shogun seriously. Look at the screen of the recorder! On one hand, one of the great things about the EVA1 is the way the on-screen displays are located along the top and bottom edges of the VF & output so they don't block your view of the image. On the other hand, the Atomos products have numerous on-screen displays as well - so depending how you have it set up they may be covering the ones from the camera. Remember to look at the Atomos screen image with all of its on-screen displays turned off. That's when any camera displays will show up. or just loop through the Atomos to a client monitor. And of course remember to check playback on the external recorder!
 
Spiral said:
So much to respond to, so little time.

Coming from other cameras, such as the DVX, HVX, and Canon ecosphere, these menus are NOT intuitive - take that for however you like it...or not. I know you don't want to hear that Mitch, but for folks like me who have not worked with too many high-end cameras (RED being the wondrous exception,) digging through the menus and manual after a gig at 1am is not the way I like to operate. Yes, I eventually need to know the full operation of the camera, but I am honestly having buyers remorse now having passed on the c200 and the fs7 for this one, to include the low light capability of the EVA (I know Sony isn't much better in the menu dept)

Run&Gun, I downloaded and DID read as much as could of the manual - had to take it to a copy shop to get the full manual so I don't have to be in the field learning the camera with my iPhone. I promise you, I wouldn't waste all of your time if I didn't spend endless hours trying to figure it out, digging through different menus, setting and factory resetting the camera after not being able to remember what I adjusted (at 12a.)

Icarus, well no, not exactly. I had to go through several settings that dealt with SDI, and then resetting them before I finally found the proper function to do so in the manual. The DVX/HVX wasn't as difficult to navigate like that, and working with RED was an intuitive dream.

So, take these comments with a grain of salt. I know everyone loves to gush over new cameras, but I'll be damned if I am not going to come here and express some of my frustrations (Mitch or no Mitch ;) as I attempt to navigate a new camera. This is how people learn, and this is how we can help each other.

Thanks for the responses!
Click to expand...

You are certainly welcome to express your frustrations, and also to come here to discuss and share with others. But I do think you should be prepared for others to disagree with you. It's not just me and you can take my position with Panasonic as a grain of salt and not worry about how I feel (don't worry I have thick skin), but you should note how others respond. You state that the menus appear confusing and that you may have preferred a C200 or an FS7. I can assure you that those cameras have equally complex menus. When you have a powerful camera with many capabilities it means that the menu will have to get more complex.

My opinion - and you can take it as you want - is that while there are a few quirks to the EVA1 menu system in general it is fairly straightforward. I think that you will find this with any camera system. I have never found a camera that had a perfect interface, and I've dealt with literally hundreds of models from many manufacturers. The first time doing a given task it can be a head scratch but once you've done it once you get to know the machine and can find the control quickly and intuitively.
 
Mitch Gross said:
You are certainly welcome to express your frustrations, and also to come here to discuss and share with others. But I do think you should be prepared for others to disagree with you. It's not just me and you can take my position with Panasonic as a grain of salt and not worry about how I feel (don't worry I have thick skin), but you should note how others respond. You state that the menus appear confusing and that you may have preferred a C200 or an FS7. I can assure you that those cameras have equally complex menus. When you have a powerful camera with many capabilities it means that the menu will have to get more complex.

My opinion - and you can take it as you want - is that while there are a few quirks to the EVA1 menu system in general it is fairly straightforward. I think that you will find this with any camera system. I have never found a camera that had a perfect interface, and I've dealt with literally hundreds of models from many manufacturers. The first time doing a given task it can be a head scratch but once you've done it once you get to know the machine and can find the control quickly and intuitively.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I get it. No camera is perfect. I have just found the Canon menu system to work a bit easier on the menus, as did previous incarnations of Panasonic mid-range cameras. I left Panasonic for Canon over image quality, sensor sizes, and ease of use for my applications. I came back because of the promise with this camera, and will certainly give it a chance (especially after the firmware update.) Like I said, I would rather express my concerns or frustrations here over Youtube.

Specifically, I just find the "semantics" and wording of the menu in the EVA different (and less intuitive) than what I am used to. To be perfectly honest, I came back to Panasonic because Canon was being stingy with their frame rates and codec with mid-range cameras, even in the c300 range, and the possibilities of the 5k sensor pulled me in. I'll work with it, and hope for the best.

Thanks for your responses!
 
OnSet said:
Spiral -
I understand your frustration when something new doesn't match what you're expecting. I've been put in the 'strange new camera' position many times myself, most often when a producer shows up with a camera model I've never seen before and wants me to 'make it match' the main camera and have it all set to go during the half hour that's been allotted to load-in setup and lighting before the first shot of the morning.
On the other hand, we all have the tendency to want to use our 'new toys' before we've fully learned them. I spent a full week during the holidays 'playing with' my EVA1 before using it on a shoot - including a day of A-B'ing it with an Amira (and a bunch of color charts, gray scales and real life situations) so I can have it ready to use it as a B-cam in that configuration.
However - take Mitch's point about the screen on the Shogun seriously. Look at the screen of the recorder! On one hand, one of the great things about the EVA1 is the way the on-screen displays are located along the top and bottom edges of the VF & output so they don't block your view of the image. On the other hand, the Atomos products have numerous on-screen displays as well - so depending how you have it set up they may be covering the ones from the camera. Remember to look at the Atomos screen image with all of its on-screen displays turned off. That's when any camera displays will show up. or just loop through the Atomos to a client monitor. And of course remember to check playback on the external recorder!
Click to expand...

ONSET, Thank you for understanding! I did work with the camera and my first images were recorded (to help Panasonic) on Youtube. In other words, this wasn't my first or second time taking the camera out. I didn't have this issue with my ninja recorder - Canon combo. I am also having an issue with the audio being previewed or played in Quicktime from the clip, itself. This makes it difficult to turn over to the client, when they have to go into an NLE to hear the audio. I'll call Atomos on that tomorrow, hopefully it is their issue, but (again) this did not happen on other Atomos products that I have used.

So yes...kinks happen. I'll give it time, but as far as low light performance inside a lit theater, right now, it's "myeh." : )

Thanks!
 
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The audio by default gets recorded on channels 3 and 4 on the Flames/Infernos, and QT is playing 1 and 2 hence no sound...that was always my understanding of it.
 
Thank NorBro! Mystery solved. I'll poke around the web or ask Atomos on a way to change that. Strange the Ninja didn't do that.
 
NorBro, that was the solution. Called Randall at ATOMOS (SUPER helpful guy,) and he said that the Inferno comes with the default of recording audio on 3/4 (doesn't quite know why they arranged it that way,) but there it is. For anyone who finds this thread in the future, turn OFF the L/R options on the lower left of the audio meters so that audio defaults to 1/2, otherwise the client can't hear the audio without an NLE.
 
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