Ted Spencer
Veteran
Want a little revenge? Tell him that "alot" isn't a word. It's "a lot" in the case he meant. There's also "allot", but it means something else...
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He will not read your F*ing script
- Thread starter ChipG
- Start date
lol, I actually don't have any ill feelings towards him. I did leave out some of the actual good advice he gave me. I was like "wow, that's harsh", but I'll take it as an incentive to improve.
dougspice
Veteran
I can't believe this is causing so much controversy. I read this article last week and he makes his case clearly and pointedly. All of the drama just seems to be among people who, as far as I can tell, just wish they had his job. Sure, sure, "what an asshole" - but come on. You don't think that maybe the hyperbole is a writing technique used deliberately? Would you have bothered to read an article entitled "Five reasons why I won't read your screenplay, sorry"?
I've been in this guy's shoes (even on this forum) and agree almost completely with everything he says. Most people who have written a script have somehow deluded themselves into thinking they have created a masterpiece, and get offended way out of proportion to reality when you give them the honest review that they asked for, no matter how nice you try to be about it. It's weird how you can make enemies by doing someone a favor, but it happens... and it's not your fault for doing the favor, it's the fault of whoever asked in the first place.
I've been in this guy's shoes (even on this forum) and agree almost completely with everything he says. Most people who have written a script have somehow deluded themselves into thinking they have created a masterpiece, and get offended way out of proportion to reality when you give them the honest review that they asked for, no matter how nice you try to be about it. It's weird how you can make enemies by doing someone a favor, but it happens... and it's not your fault for doing the favor, it's the fault of whoever asked in the first place.
That is what it is. It was fun to read first, then got boring; it could be easily trimmed in half.
ChrisHurn
Well-known member
I get that, I totally understand that. I'm not an idiot. It's lame, IMO.
I would, yeah. I like reading and listening to guys like John August and Ted Elliot. Because they're not assholes but they tell it how it is. That doesn't mean that I want watered down truths, or like to live in some sort of false reality.
I didn't take the article with too much weight. And I don't think people are. I think they are reacting to a guy that sounds like an asshole in this particular article. Am I evading the truth? No. I know my screenplay sucks. But I'm learning. Like others. I saw an article like this not so long ago that wasn't all I-wish-I-was-tarrantino, and it was far more helpful to me in terms of waking up to the fact that I was in for a serious ride.
But hey, I don't deny the fact that some people will get a real boost from this. If it works for them, great. There is truth in this article. That's not what I have an issue with --
You can tell the truth and be inspirational, too.
I think this is another reason why a lot of filmmakers and writers you hear about "making it" don't come off internet message boards or websites. It's because there's only a certain amount of elitism you can put up with before it turns you into a critic and an asshole. People who win are those who say, okay, I'm doing this, see ya later.
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dougspice
Veteran
I just feel that you can criticize the guy for his personality all you like, but the fact of the matter is that the type-A arrogant in-your-face personality is very strong in Hollywood, not coincidentally. You may not like Tarantino's brash attitude (I usually don't) but that doesn't mean he's not a smart guy who's right a lot of the time.
But you're absolutely right about your last point. Who dares wins. Whether that has anything to do with the very brief amount of time filmmakers have been on message boards is a completely separate question. Point being: enough of this nonsense, I've got work to do. And so does anyone reading this.
But you're absolutely right about your last point. Who dares wins. Whether that has anything to do with the very brief amount of time filmmakers have been on message boards is a completely separate question. Point being: enough of this nonsense, I've got work to do. And so does anyone reading this.
MattinSTL
Sound Modulator
Dit-friggin-to...
After hearing Howard Stern go on about how great the True Blood series is... I finally decided to watch it... and if that isn't payola then I don't know what is... or else H.S.'s opinion on film has officially gone to sh*t.
I tried to watch 2 episodes of True Blood so far and I have zero idea what the hype is about... it's True Crud.
Bring back Night Stalker... 10x better... if you want a fun horror fix... why not just dump some sex into that whole idea if you gotta' push for an R.
Okay... back to the regularly scheduled rant...
JonathanLB
Carbonite Member
True Blue sucks. I agree. I bought Season One on Blu-ray, people recommended it, my sister said it was oh so great, but then again she was trying to sell me on how Twilight is actually pretty good and I seriously told her, Liz, don't start with me, you graduated having read a LOT of Russian literature and having a double major in literature, do NOT tell me Twilight is good writing. It's crap. She was basically like, well... I liked it ok. I just looked at her like, don't be a 14-year-old girl. So I watched every episode of the first season, because I'm fair like that, but by 3-4 episodes in I was not a fan. It DID get a little better, that I'll admit, but it was basically garbage. Talk about overhyped!
It's just another crappy show about a stupid teenage girl having a crush on a super old vampire. Wow, that's so original, it hasn't already been done before in Buffy (with Angel, which I love both of those shows), or in Twilight. What is with girls and this big fantasy they have of being taken aggressively by some "dark and mysterious but sensitive older man" who happens to be a vampire? I'm sorry but it's downright disgusting and wrong. It's garbage soap opera nonsense. I won't be watching season two.
Also, I get that it's on HBO, that's nice, and I watch a lot of shows on Showtime and HBO, but I don't think it's tolerable or acceptable to replace good storytelling with 3-5 sex scenes PER EPISODE. I personally am a conservative director, I wouldn't even put a sex scene in a movie. I'm all for the old style, where you just show the morning after and everyone knows what happened. I don't care about satisfying the prurient interests. It's tasteless if you ask me. If I want porn, I just go watch porn, it's not really hard to find. And it's a lot better than what I get on HBO. But when I'm watching normal entertainment I don't want any of that at all. Let alone 3-5 per scenes per episode, which just started pissing me off.
True Blood is indeed True Crud.
It's just another crappy show about a stupid teenage girl having a crush on a super old vampire. Wow, that's so original, it hasn't already been done before in Buffy (with Angel, which I love both of those shows), or in Twilight. What is with girls and this big fantasy they have of being taken aggressively by some "dark and mysterious but sensitive older man" who happens to be a vampire? I'm sorry but it's downright disgusting and wrong. It's garbage soap opera nonsense. I won't be watching season two.
Also, I get that it's on HBO, that's nice, and I watch a lot of shows on Showtime and HBO, but I don't think it's tolerable or acceptable to replace good storytelling with 3-5 sex scenes PER EPISODE. I personally am a conservative director, I wouldn't even put a sex scene in a movie. I'm all for the old style, where you just show the morning after and everyone knows what happened. I don't care about satisfying the prurient interests. It's tasteless if you ask me. If I want porn, I just go watch porn, it's not really hard to find. And it's a lot better than what I get on HBO. But when I'm watching normal entertainment I don't want any of that at all. Let alone 3-5 per scenes per episode, which just started pissing me off.
True Blood is indeed True Crud.
j1clark@ucsd.edu
Veteran
Well, for almost opposite reasons... I've not watched TV (Cabled or over-the-air) for decades. For me there's not enough sex... We see... is that a direction in the script... any amount of 'realism' in effects, blood spatters, exploding bodies, shaky cam, gook of any imaginable variety being plastered, thrown, exploded...
Yet people having 'sex' is required to be 'stylized' to the point of only about 3 or 4 types of shots, and no 'offending' body parts or regions showing...
In regard to "True Blood", every so often, I do think, 'am I missing something' by not watching the cable productions... then people start describing the shows, I see a few episodes while in hotel rooms, etc. I again come to the conclusion I'm not missing much...
This is not realism. Realism is when you see exhausted bodies of the prisoners of a Nazi camp. Or cold emotionless Katyn killings. Or victims of Hiroshima nuclear bombings. Exploding bodies do not convey a tenth of horrors of human death.
j1clark@ucsd.edu
Veteran
Sorry, despite Mr. Olson's self appreciation of merit, the article didn't remotely measure up to Swift's
A MODEST PROPOSAL
For preventing the children of poor people in Ireland,
from being a burden on their parents or country,
and for making them beneficial to the publick.
Olson could have easily transposed 'eating babies' for 'use scripts for kindling on those cold Southern California nights before one is 'discovered', often in a suitible supine position to appreciate the greatness and magnanimity of the Discoverer'.
j1clark@ucsd.edu
Veteran
When I look at Josh Olson's entries on IMDB, I am at a loss as to why this guy thinks he is now an 'insider', such that he has to publicize how put upon he has become.
One script made to a major film, and sure, he got a lot of 'nominations' but no win... perhaps next year... or the year after that... or perhaps this is his 'defining moment'.
Does this provide a basis for 'I'm so great, people are falling all over themselves to get a script into my hands'.
An alternative explanation... few people are badgering him these days for script reads, because, well, "A History of Violence"(2006), nominated but no win... well there it is 2006, that was 3 whole years ago, and no follow up major deal... gosh, a TV episode, a 'sequence' in an animated film, wow... Olson must be on a roll...
That in contrast to quite a few writers who have had several major films come out in the the same time period...
And most importantly... felt no need to make a big puff piece on 'why they don't read no stinking fu*king scripts of lowly mortals'...
Barry_Green
Moderator
Did you even read the article?
Where did you get the idea that he thinks he's "better" than anyone else, or that others are "lowly mortals"?
Where did you get the idea that he thinks he's "better" than anyone else, or that others are "lowly mortals"?
I know he has one helluva deal with Paramount right now for an adaptaion and other projects with other studios. Stuff other writers would kill to have.
j1clark@ucsd.edu
Veteran
Yes, I read the article, and my response was 'who the fu*k is this guy'... I had to look up his creds on IMDB, and what I saw was, pretty much a one off deal at the moment.
If the guy had 10-15 major motion picture credits, perhaps even with one being nominated, I'd say, he has some substance. But with one off, who the hell is this guy? And why the fu*k should I care whether he's put upon by those not yet found, aka, 'lowly mortals', aka, 'those not in his inner circle'.
As far as I'm concerned the guy has his head up his as*, and whether he will turn out to be a 'great scriptwriter of the age', or a 'one off, 'coulda been ah contenda''
remains to be seen.
The biggest mistake, in my opinion, was that of the guy who wanted his script read... he should have picked a higher luminary, then, if say, William Goldman issued a Internet Proclaimation, perhaps that would be worthy of note...
What this may mean, is that some people are so desparate, they will hand their material over to any sh*thead, thinking that somehow that will give the the keys to the inner sanctum.
j1clark@ucsd.edu
Veteran
Will see if those make it out of Development Hell...
Not that the outburst was absolutely causal... but I've not seen the recent "Terminator Salvation"(2009) incarnation with Christian Bale as of yet. The outburst did sort of 'color' my desire to see the film, and then due to various reviews, didn't choose to see it in theaters.
I will probably have the same attitude with films based on Josh Olson's scripts, since these days I am more inclined to look at who wrote the script of a film, than in the past.
I do have a set of behaviors that I think are operable for a 'professional', and 'outbursts', even if perhaps warrented, are not part of the set.
He's got the keys bro... There is so much more than you don't know, it doesn't really start or stop with his IMDB credits, it's about his power in the town, yes, he has extremley strong personal relationships with studio's, producers, directors. One phone call and he can have any script put on any studio execs desk.
Barry_Green
Moderator
If you'd followed that motto with Akiva Goldsman (author of such atrocities as Batman Forever, Batman & Robin, and Lost In Space) you would have missed out on "A Beautiful Mind". I was absolutely shocked when I saw that Akiva Goldsman had written that...
No doubt it was unprofessional, but -- nowhere in there did he say ANYTHING about anyone being "lesser" than him, or anything like that.
It's simply astonishing to me, how much someone brings into or reads into a situation, other than the words that are actually written on the paper... he said "go ahead, write the next Casablanca, I sincerely hope it goes through the roof and you get an Oscar and a billion dollars... just don't ask me to read it". He never said "I'm better than you", or anything like that. He never said "until you walk in the same hallowed halls as me" or anything like that. He said "if you don't know how to write, learn how to." Sorry, if someone takes offense to that, they've got no business asking anyone to read anything they've written.
I'm not defending the guy -- I'm just pointing out what actually was said, and what wasn't said, and am marvelling at the gap here.
I wonder -- if he'd taken the "f" word out -- would people be reacting this way? I think people may be attributing the use of that word to demean the script, even though he used the "f" word over and over in reference to his own stuff too... I think the inclusion of that word in reference to the script was a venting of frustration, not an attribution of merit or lack thereof.
Most studio execs grab scripts out of thier pile and will not look at the author or title (title will be changed anyway, they read the writers name after they read the script). They just start reading, that way there are no previous judgments attached from other projects. A good script is a good script, doesn't matter if one was for a comic book movie and the next a dramatic love story.
j1clark@ucsd.edu
Veteran
You're right. I could miss the best film based on his script since... what, Casablanca... Citizen Kane... McCabe and Mrs Miller... Pirates of the Caribbean
Since those writers of the last example have a site for the 'learner' I don't think I recall a similar 'outburst', and I'm sure, given their site, they probably are hounded by 'amateurs'.
Which leads us to how 'amateur' is used by Olson, that is in a 'disparaging' fashion, as in '... commited the ultimate amateur move...'
Perhaps you interpret that sort of statement differently, I see it as defining Olson as superior to the 'amateur'. He did not use 'student', he did not use 'learner', 'novice', nor 'new'. Unless you read the word 'amateur' differently, in many modern contexts, the use is a dismissive, disparaging fashion, and the person issuing the term is often a 'professional', placing themselves in a position of judgement, that is a 'superior' position.
If he is a 'writer', then he well knows what the words, and their respective connotations, are. He is not just concatinating them together in a 'random' fashion, or via some sort of thesaurus look up.
As a note, I did not say I would not see his films in the future, just indicate I won't be in any rush, and to extend... may wait until they hit the $5 Walmart box, and if there is a gem, it will join my $5 copy of 'Casablanca'...
As a further note, I don't believe the setup for The Story. If Olson is willing to publish his discontents to the world, in forceful terms, I find it an absolutely unbelievable plot hole, that he would be 'cornered' into accepting material he had no desire to read... he did not mention 'gun to head', 'knife to throat', or 'bomb strapped to toilet', or similar life threatening situation.
Since we don't have any information on the actual submission, if it really existed, we have no way to judge it's merits, and only have the opinion of Mr. Olson.
Who knows, perhaps this is Olson's way of deflecting any future litigation, should recognizable elements of the synpsized story 'crop' up in an Olson script...