HDV Native editing or Apple Codex?

P

pixelator

Active member
Hello,

Getting fairly good results editing HDV natively on my 24" imac. Exporting as a DVCPRO-50 quicktime movie (anamoprhic) to burn to DVD. Not too many compression artifacts. Does anyone recomend using a different editing codex? Apple's codex or perhaps if I have the hard drive space DVCPRO-HD? I edit on a G-RAID using Firewire 800, so should handle DVCPROHD. Does editign HDV Native increase compression artifacts over one of the less lossy codex regardless of how you export it?
 
Why go out to DVCPRO50 for the DVD? You can simply export directly to Compressor and skip a generation for better quality. In general editing, HDV editing is the quickest way to go.

Noah
 
I second Noah on that for sure. If you've got it all on the timeline in HDV, just go File > Export > Using Compressor and go to bed (if its a longer piece, HDV downconvert and encode might be a bit slow). I had to put a bunch of HDV stuff we shot of a subject onto DVD for them (favor) and basically did it that way and it all worked out great.

Taking HDV out to another codec can create unnecessary headaches. While things "should" go smooth with the right video capture cards, they don't always. I believe one of the productions at the office tried that and ran into a "fun" time with sync issues. The native HDV or the AIC I think will be more reliable for you. If you're really offput by HDV itself then I'd go to a professional post house and have them do a transfer from HDV to the other format using hardware (VTR to VTR) solution rather than anything software based.

cheers.
 
Thanks, I'll double check my testing tonight. Maybe I'm missing something on the exporting of the compressor settings. I end up with a 10 gig file for 3.5 hours of footage and the results after DVD studio pro are less than stellar. (Jaggie edges, over compression in subtle colors, green walls blocking up etc) the export from the DVCPRO50 anamorphic was closer to 60 gigs for the same timeline and much better color, almost no artifacts etc. I'll double check tonight though, my memory is hazy in the morning. Compressor also took 12 hours, DVCPRO50 export took 5 hours, and FCP quicktime movie export with markers was 2 hours. All looked good on a CRT. It was the HD LCD's & DLP's (not plasmas or CRTs) that the artifacts showed up in.
 
60 gig file is not a compressed file. That just sounds like a Quicktime movie using the Export Quicktime Movie option. That will look great, but that's why its 60GB. When you want to take that material and fit it on a 4.7GB or 8.5GB (DL) disc, then you're going to lose some quality. That's the nature of compression, especially software compression. If you're trying to do 3.5 hours to 4.7GB, you'll definitely see the compression, that's asking a lot. Going out to a DL ought to soften the blow, but that's pushing the DL up there as well.

cheers.
 
VaricamLife said:
60 gig file is not a compressed file. That just sounds like a Quicktime movie using the Export Quicktime Movie option. That will look great, but that's why its 60GB. When you want to take that material and fit it on a 4.7GB or 8.5GB (DL) disc, then you're going to lose some quality. That's the nature of compression, especially software compression. If you're trying to do 3.5 hours to 4.7GB, you'll definitely see the compression, that's asking a lot. Going out to a DL ought to soften the blow, but that's pushing the DL up there as well.

cheers.
Click to expand...

Yup and understood to all of the above. Yes, on burning 3.5 hours of footage on Dual Layer DVD+R's is the only way to go. I was getting better results having FCP export the footage into a quicktime movie self contained 4:3 anaorphic SD file DVCPRO50 codex and having DVD studio pro compress it durring burning, than I was having compressor compress it for DVD studio pro, that then re-compresses it again during the DVD burning process. Or am I missing something in DVD studio pro to keep it from recompressing the MPG2? ORRRRRRR should I be using compressor to compress and export into a different file other than MPG2 with all settings on Best, such as animation, DVCPRO-50, DV NTSC etc. Again, this week has become a blur and my methodology for compressor is suspect. The apple manuals are very good at explaining buttons, but not really when to use them. Sort of like explainig to a Martian that a car can go into P, R, 1, 2, 3 & D. But not when one is better than another. I've heard of some people editing HDV by capturing it directly on to DVCPROHD for editing, since even the editing process with fades, wipes, edits, etc can introduce artifacts on HDV native platforms? I think for broadcast it's a no brainer, but for home/part time studios, (like me) the extra effort and time might not be realized for the money and effort put forth? I will however relook at compressor on the next project that is waiting on my table for me when I get home. For this paid project I'm done and burning 20 DVD's ... looks better than anyone hoped for, and they are happy to pay me. That's important for today. Tomorrow, just tyring to streamline the process with less guesswork, keeping times short or manageble, and the quality high as I can and still make some decent income for my time.
 
Yeah- but ultimately you're adding an additional level of compression- DVCPRO50 is a compressed format. I suspect you haven't adjusted your frame controls in Compressor. Next time do an Export Using Compressor from your HDV timeline and go into the frame controls, set quality to high, etc.

Noah
 
NoahK said:
Yeah- but ultimately you're adding an additional level of compression- DVCPRO50 is a compressed format. I suspect you haven't adjusted your frame controls in Compressor. Next time do an Export Using Compressor from your HDV timeline and go into the frame controls, set quality to high, etc.

Noah
Click to expand...

thank you, I seem to be missing some basic concept somewhere...

True, but everything compressor does is add an additonal level of compression. FCP to exporting out a 180 minute HDV 720p file to animorphic DVCPRO 50 was a 50 gig file. The same timeline exported using compressor to DVD BEST 150 minutes makes a 2 gig file. (weird? Is the logic reveresed? Should I use the DVD BEST 90 minute setting? Would it result in a less compressed file around 7 gigs to fit on a 8 gig dual layer DVD?)

Short answer with what I saw, after DVD studio got both files and rendered them to a dual layer DVD, the one done with the DVC-PRO-50 codex had much less artifacting going on than that with from the DVD BEST 150 minute settings.

Is it that I need to do is spend more time to get to know and love compressor to closer match my final destination format and size, or just keep everying HD 4:2:2 or HDV 4:2:0 as long as I can before I have to go to 4:1:1. NTSC? My only reference in my Apple manuals that I found as to COMPRESSOR was about two paragraphs saying that it compresses files into what ever you want.... great.. what do I want?

Thank you again for any advice or page numbers in the manual that I seem to have not noticed.
 
I'm a little confused.... Did you bring the DVCPro50 file and the "DVD Best 150 minute" files straight into DVDSP? If so, DVDSP will re-compress the DVCPro50 file to whatever the defalt encoder settings are. The 150 minute setting from Compressor will allow you to put 150 minutes of video on a single layer disc as far as I know, but you are putting 180 minutes dual layer disc, right? If you export using Compressor from your FCP timeline and use the DVD Best 90 minute setting with Dolby 2.0 audio and adjust the video data rate down a little (just to be safe!) you should get the best quality possible from Compressor..... I think.....
 
pixel,

"Compressing" to a format like DVCPro 50 doesn't help you any. It will give you a better looking image and it will be a lot less than HDV, fine. But HDV to DVCPro50 compression is not meant for DVD authoring at all. As mentioned, if you take the DVCPro 50 file (which is a compressed version of your HDV) into DVDSP, then you're compressing it a SECOND time. DVDSP will have to compress it from DVCPro 50 to MPEG-2. There's no way around that. But doing two levels of compression you're throwing away a bunch of additional information unnecessarily. And so no its not weird that your DVCPro50 file is 50 gigs and your Compressor file is 2 gigs.

The preset in DVDSP are just a few examples of what you can do, and are really just some handy shortcuts. You really do need to invest some time to figuring out some of the encoding settings and make your own presets. Especially as you're planing on authoring to a dual-layer disc (those presets are meant for 4.7GB discs). The Apple Pro Training Series: Compressor Quick Reference book might be a good investment ($20).

As for your current situation, as mentioned below, use the 90 min preset and then just tweak it a bit. In the inspector, it provides an estimated filesize. I usually find that it ends up being bigger, so leave some cushion and turn down the bit rate even more (also as mentioned). And use the Dolby for audio not AIFF. The AIFF will drain a bunch of space on your disc needlessly. Good luck.

cheers.
 
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