HDSLR Documentary Lighting

M

MutePrint

Active member
I know there are literally thousands of "what light kit should I buy" threads in the audio section, but I figure this subject is a bit different in regards to HDSLR filmmaking, so it probably warrants a thread here as well.

I'm looking to pick up a very minimal light kit for short film and documentary work, and was wondering if anyone had experience with the Lowel "Interview Three-Light Kit" (seen here at B&H). $629 is definitely around the top of my budget at the moment, but the research I've done seems to suggest that two omnis and a tota should probably cover my immediate needs. I'll be shooting with a 7D, so two 500s and a 750 should probably have me covered for most small interiors, right? Also, would I realistically be able to save much trying to put something like this together used? The stands/barn doors etc. will all be necessary, but I'd definitely prefer soft boxes to umbrellas for this sort of thing.

Research seems to indicate that you can't get much in the way of quality light kits in the sub-$1000 range, but I'm not looking for something that will last forever. I had previously been looking into some Britek stuff, which seems to be heavily warned against around here. So, are these Lowels worth their salt?
 
My best suggestion is if you have any friends or acquaintances that have lighting kits and see if you can borrow or rent them to "try before you buy".

Lowels are decent lights even though they feel flimsy. But look for a pair of used DP or Omni lights and put speed rings on them to use Chimeras. They usually have barndoors and scrims with them.
 
I don't mean to sound like an ass when I say this, but why does everyone want to "make a movie" when they haven't the faintest idea about lighting, audio, editing, or any of the processes involved in movie making?

Why not spend a year learning about how to make a movie and THEN put your project together?

To directly answer your question, yes, you can use that light kit to do "interview" lighting. If you want your subjects to look like the people they catch on COPS. Three hard lights are going to be VERY difficult to make look flattering unless you do a lot of work. So rather than that, I'd suggest a RIFA 44, and a DP light. At least you can get something flattering with those.
 
perrone, i think for many people to make movies and learn as you go is the easiest way for some people. WHen i say movies i mean shorts for free rather than spending your savings on a feature.

I have a decent understanding of photography, and editing and i have seen a ridiculous amount of movies. Im trying to learn what i can about audio and lighting, and taking what i do know and trynig to make things out of it.

To answer the OP, im not a lighting expert, but just wanted to make sure he didnt get discouraged.

I just shot my first documentary, and it had a ton of problems. I didnt spend anything on it though, and it was a good learning experience.

The whole try before you buy though is really good advice.
 
Don't get me wrong. I am all about experimentation. I still do it. I'll whip out the camera and some lights, and just TRY things still. I shot my first documentary in 2003 on the DVX. I knew next to nothing. Shot some in 60i, some in 24p, and some in 24pa. I didn't know any better. I have just NOW got to the place where I feel I can finally take that footage, and try to make something of it. I tried 2 years ago, and just lacked certain skills that I have now.

But to me, if you want to buy lights, mics, and so forth, and "make a movie", then buy the stuff and spend a year LEARNING to use it. Then go make the movie. I bought worklights, clamp lights, CFL bulbs, fabric from the sewing store, etc. And just worked for months understanding it all, and asking a million questions. Reading everything I could get my hands on. Getting books and DVDs. It was a hard road.

Six years after shooting my first documentary, I am finally in a place where I am comfortable lighting scenes for other people's movies. I know have a very basic command of how to shape light, how to record reasonable audio, and put them together. I still can't cut worth a hoot but I'm learning, and am just starting to get a good grasp on green-screen work after playing with it for a year. I am about to order a 20x20 greenscreen setup next week, so I can start doing it at work.

I certainly don't want to discourage the OP. Nothing wrong with jumping in with both feet. But I caution jumping into the abyss with both feet. Start a bit smaller. Instead of starting with a documentary, why not start with shooting some 1-ups and 2-ups. Learn to light people before trying to start lighting a scene. I think this is what get's many newbies into trouble. They have (almost) enough budget to buy a light kit that is ample to light a person, and they want to light a movie with it.

As a classic example, the short film I am working on now, I am lighting a convenience store tomorrow. I will use 2-3 instruments in there. A flag or two, and maybe a silk. By contrast, I lit a living room last weekend and I used 5 instruments as well as on-set practicals.

When you don't understand lighting, or the camera, you just don't know that to light properly you need to know what f-stop the camera will be operating at. You need to know the movement of the camera, and you need to know the dimensions of the space you are trying to light.

So, SWB, I fully encourage you to get started. Jump in there. But start small. And yes, the Lowels are just fine. Most of the lighting I am doing on this short film is with Lowel lighting. My Mole-Richardson is at the office, and we have used one Chimera but that was mostly because we needed a softbox on a pole for a walk. I like the Lowel stuff a LOT. They are simple, reliable, and not too heavy. I've got nearly 3k of light plus cords in a bag meant for a projector. I carry it on my shoulder. The stands... not so much. I use them when I need to travel light, but I'd certainly recommend other options if you can.
 
Perrone-

I, like many around here, am a self-taught filmmaker. I first started with a DVX about six years ago and learned everything I could from DVXUser and other resources. Over the course of that time I have made several short films as well a couple documentaries. I've worked several paid jobs as a videographer with the DVX. Being a student I have an extremely minimal budget for film gear. I've been using whatever limited lighting is available, whether that be home depot work lights diffused with dryer pads or a cheap broken light kit from the local nonprofit film center. Because I've never had the resources to purchase (or even work with) decent lighting in the past, I do have a few questions about how much light will be necessary for a 7D as opposed to the old DVX and 8mm film I've used in the past. And yes, living in the Pacific Northwest with almost no film industry, I have very little information about the quality of any given brand, be it Lowel, Arri, or anything above Home Depot.

I'm going to be blunt with you and just tell you that your statements here have been incredibly ignorant and condescending. To suggest that someone is not qualified to shoot a short documentary because they aren't familiar with a particular brand's quality or some other technical factor is--in my mind--contrary to the entire nature and purpose of the DVXUser community. Of course 3 hard lights are going to look like an episode of COPS bare. As I noted in my original post, I plan to use softboxes (and likely a variety of gels and scrims) to the extent that I can afford them. Not everyone in this community is a professional or even has the minimal resources necessary to pull of a "professional" shoot. However, believe it or not, I do have a bachelor's degree in film, albeit from a university that only owns a single broken Lowel DV Creator kit with most of the accessories missing. This community--and yes, I am technically a "junior" member, though I've been reading regularly since around 2003--is built on the fundamental notion that anyone with a camera can be a filmmaker. And as an almost cardinal rule, getting out there and making films is definitively THE best possible education. So no, I don't think I'll be taking a year "learning about how to make a movie" (which, coincidentally, I've done through a variety of institutions and personal education), and instead will continue doing what I've done fairly successfully in the past through a few different festival award-winning shorts. Thanks for the input, though.
 
SWB,

My apologies as you certainly read my post as though it were all directed to you. It was not. If you've walked the path of doing shorts and learning and even attending film school, then I commend you. I guess being here for a while can cause one to get jaded in some regards. And my comments are typically aimed more so for newer readers and not directly pointed at you or folks like you've that have put in the time and work to get where you have.

While the forums can be good, they can be a double-edged sword too. Most non-pros here don't have their C.V. on their page, so it's hard to tell what someone's background is. I'd say 90% of the time lighting questions like this come from folks who have not worked with light. Occasionally, we see questions like yours from folks who have experience, and just need some info.

Sorry for coming off condescending toward you. It's certainly not meant to be. Please try not to take everything I say personally. It's not intended that way.
 
Peronne, thanks for the response. It's often hard to tell where a message is being directed, but regardless, I do think it's important to give people the benefit of the doubt here. I wish I would've had the money to throw around on a light kit when I was first starting out, as I'm sure I would've eventually learned the gear through experimentation. I understand where you're coming from though, and I do wish people would spend a bit more time on the educational side of filmmaking. Nonetheless, I have a hard time dissuading anyone with the resources from diving right in. As long as you're honest with your actors/crew upfront about your limitations, it can be an invaluable way of learning the craft.
 
Yea, you're right. I should give people more of the benefit of the doubt. I'll work on that. And I related my personal documentary story for a reason. Jumping in is great, but looking back 6 years, I wish I'd taken just a BIT more time and learned the craft a bit better. When I first laid that footage onto the timeline I was heartbroken. I didn't understand why it looked all jacked up. Knew zero about pulldown or advanced pulldown. Didn't know how to stabilize so I spent 3 days and nights using keyframes as a crude stabilizer, etc.

In short, my ignorance of basics made my footage look like garbage. And it wasn't recorded all that well either. No white balancing, etc. UGH! If I could do it now... but it was a once in a lifetime event, and it was that or nothing.

Anyway, yes, get the Lowels. And if I can be of ANY help to you in the light purchase, photos of how I've used mine, whatever, let me know and I'll help all I can.
 
i strongly recommend you check out cool lights. Richard is one awsome individual when it comes to service, and you'll be saving yourself a bundle by getting lights from them. Quality products too A++
 
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