HDMI Output to BM Decklink HD Problems

C

cristiansoares

Active member
Hi Guys I have a Green Screen shoot this tuesday and will be all day. I'm not trusting on the internal codec for this shoot specifically because of some tests that I've done last week, so my only option since I'm pressed for time is to record to the MacPro with BM Deckling HD.
Problem is I want to record Progressive footage instead of the 1080i and have to deal with interlacing, but I can only get a signal feed if the card is set to 1080p60 59.94 and the file sizes are huge. It's even more strange that the camera is set for 1080p30 but the hdmi is 60p.
Any ideas? Have you been through something similar? Having done a ton of GS on Ex1, Ex3 and 5d in the past, haven't had any luck with this cam and its codec.
 
The HDMI output seems to work only interlaced, not progressive. I've tried a Ninja and three different video I/O boxes, the AJA Io XT, the Blackmagic UltraStudio and the Matrox MXO2, and none of them works if the FS100 is set to progressive.

They all work fine in interlaced, and they record progressive signals from all sources I tried via SDI (apart from the Ninja, of course).

Very annoying, since you can set the Sony to progressive in the menu, after all.
 
It´s not the camera or the recorder it´s HDMI.

HDMI does not support progressive 1080.


Having said that, if you set your recording format to 1080p and your output format to 1080i
The camera wraps the 1080p in a 1080i signal.
The BM card or Ninja/Samurai can see this and record normal 1080p.

So it´s all good

The only thing that can happen is, that your NLE is misinterpreting this and showing fields.
All you have to do, is telling your NLE that this is progressive material and you are golden.

Frank
 
Postmaster said:
It´s not the camera or the recorder it´s HDMI.

HDMI does not support progressive 1080.


Having said that, if you set your recording format to 1080p and your output format to 1080i
The camera wraps the 1080p in a 1080i signal.
The BM card or Ninja/Samurai can see this and record normal 1080p.

So it´s all good

The only thing that can happen is, that your NLE is misinterpreting this and showing fields.
All you have to do, is telling your NLE that this is progressive material and you are golden.

Frank
Click to expand...

Thanks Frank! Will definitely check this tomorrow prior to the shoot. So you say, set the camera output to 1080p and record on BM card to 1080i30? If it works like you said in the BM card it will be a life saver (hate dealing with deinterlacing).
By the way, I set the output on the FS100 to 1080p/480i, set it record 1080p30 and on the BM Card I get a signal feed at 1080p60 but not 1080p30. Any ideas or can you reproduce it an tell me whats going on. It seems to take a ton of HD space (500+ MB pre minute)
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but you should set FS100 to 1080/60i and set Hyperdeck to 1080/30p?
 
LaForce said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but you should set FS100 to 1080/60i and set Hyperdeck to 1080/30p?
Click to expand...

I guess I will have to try these combinations monday and see what works! I thought this as like Apples and Oranges, 1080p30 on cam and the same on the card, or 1080i60 and the same on the card, had no idea it would work with mismatch formats. I see and keep you posted of my findings. Thanks!
 
I didn't test all this in NTSC, only in PAL, but it should be similar. There is a format called PsF (progressive segmented frames), which is taking progressive signals (like 25p) and wraps them into fields (like 50i). Since those frames come from the same moment in time, there is no real interlacing (horizontal lines on motion) and you can (and should!) treat them as progressive in your NLE. So, at least in PAL there is a solution. If you are shooting 30p, it should work the same. 24p (or 23,98) is a very different story…

That said, why is Sony offering progressive output at all if it doesn't work with HDMI? And why are progressive signals listed for HDMI in the tech specs of AJA Io XT, Blackmagic UltraStudio or Matrox MXO2?
 
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cristiansoares said:
Thanks Frank! Will definitely check this tomorrow prior to the shoot. So you say, set the camera output to 1080p and record on BM card to 1080i30? If it works like you said in the BM card it will be a life saver (hate dealing with deinterlacing).
By the way, I set the output on the FS100 to 1080p/480i, set it record 1080p30 and on the BM Card I get a signal feed at 1080p60 but not 1080p30. Any ideas or can you reproduce it an tell me whats going on. It seems to take a ton of HD space (500+ MB pre minute)
Click to expand...

No, set the recording format of the camera to 30p and the output format of the camera to 60i.
Your BM settings are 60i, but it´s only 30PsF (progressive) wrapped in a 60i signal.
You end up with 2 fields, but they are just a "sliced" real 30p signal.
Tell your NLE to interpret them as progressive and use a 30p timeline.

Should be fine that way, I do that all the time.

Frank
 
Sure, that works for me in PAL as well, but it's annoying to have to correct the clips in the NLE or they'll loose resolution.

I really don't get it why it should be incompatible:

– RED is serving only progressive via HDMI
– many Blu-ray players can deliver true 24p via HDMI
– Sony offers you to switch the output to true progressive, and the FS100 only has HDMI
– all video I/O boxes from AJA, BM and Matrox list progressive formats for their HDMI too

Are they all wrong?
 
OK, I found out what's wrong: Sony is delivering 1080p25 via HDMI as 1080p50 with frame-doubling (if set to progressive). Sigh!
 
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