HDMI Atomos Ninja Hard Disk Recorder 795$

au8ust said:
Not a direct answer to you but maybe you should see http://www.dvfreelancer.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8941#p47093
Click to expand...
I know that most of true and dedicated video cameras (even HV30) outputs uncompressed through HDMI. I don't shoot with DSLR, so I can't comment on 7D or T2i, maybe Canon crippled it on purpose? ENG and documentaries is what I shoot, so I really don't bother with DSLR- for me it would be total pain. However looks like Ninja will be allowing for much higher quality recording on older cameras for a fraction of the cost.
 
http://vimeo.com/20173362

Atomos CEO Jeromy Young demonstrates ALL the controls and menu items on the new Atomos Ninja, and gives a guided tour of everything that comes in the case with the HDMI recorder.

He also announces the forthcoming release of an HD-SDI version, the Samurai.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
how does the lanc in/out work?

is that a varizoom -> ninja-> lanc cable (male to male) -> af100?

so pressing the record button on the lanc would execute both n camera and the ninja?
 
Dave,
After dealing with your company and the approved reseller you sent me to, I feel our response is a complete joke. You are really misleading people with your marketing and your lack of any sort of approved compatible camera list is cause for many red flags. Your reseller actually told me that the question if it would work on any of my dslr's is not the responsibility of them or Atomos to answer. All emails to your company in regards to this issues, have not been replied. Your big claim is that your product will work on dslr's, give us one that this will work correctly on. Your not answering that because the answer is none. I know there are a lot of cameras out there but only a handful of dslr's, since this is your big target for this product why not test those cameras first. Your reseller wanted me to buy it and beta test it (at my expense) and give him the feedback. If you are getting such good results on vast majority of cameras, give us that list. Go on record and guarantee your product. Testing the HDMI out on my camera is a complete joke of a way to figure out if this will work with the ninja. Just because I get a HD signal out doesn't mean I am getting the signal straight from the sensor without any internal camera compression. Be real with the marketing, There are going to be lots of unhappy people purchasing your product (and with an at least 30% return fee, if they take it back at all) very unhappy once they try to use it.
 
tacomavideo said:
Dave,
After dealing with your company and the approved reseller you sent me to, I feel our response is a complete joke.
Click to expand...

Can't you just wait for what other people have to say about the particular camera you want to use it with? Clean HDMI output on camera's is not Atomos' responsibility.
 
RieniO said:
Can't you just wait for what other people have to say about the particular camera you want to use it with? Clean HDMI output on camera's is not Atomos' responsibility.
Click to expand...

Agreed.... it only takes a brief look in the DSLR section to know that the only camera that even outputs any level of 1080(i) is the GH2.

We have know for some time now that the Canon's are not outputting anything worthwhile.
 
Also. If the Ninja delivers and works as advertised you can be certain that the next generation of DSLR's will output clean HDMI to take advantage of the Ninja.

This is a ground breaking product is it delivers on what it claims to do. I see no reason to complain about the current crop of VDSLR's. Hell, just buy a different camera. Seriously! Would this product be worth switching cameras for if for $995 COMPLETE you can get a 10bit 422 uncompressed recorder? $995 includes a killer case, batteries and a 500gig HD! No need to buy expensive cards!

FWIW I have no affiliation with Atomos at all. But holy cow, this could possibly be what we've all been waiting for. What are the alternatives? A nanoflash is three times the cost and requires that you spend another $1k extra for a case, batteries and expensive CF cards just to record anything. I think it's unfair to complain about your VDSLR and it's hdmi output. Go out and buy another camera with the $3000 Atomos just saved you!

????

Just my 2 cents.
 
It is unreasonable to ask a company (especially at these prices) to guarantee performance of another companies product or integration of the two. Ninja's responsibility ends with a specification of what it records. If your camera is compatible with their specification, then buy the product. If not, then don't.

The product would cost 2x the current price if they had to test and guarantee interoperability.
 
We seem to be getting criticism for the fact that DSLR manufacturers (and not video camera manufacturers) are unwilling, or unable to output a clean, standard HDMI signal out of their cameras. The only thing we are claiming is that we can record from a valid HDMI source. Of course it's frustrating that more DSLR cameras don't provide a suitable signal, but I don't think it's fair to blame us for that!

The advice I give everyone is to go to a Ninja reseller and test your camera with it. No-one is going to make you buy a Ninja if you test it in the shop and it doesn't work. If any reseller refuses to let you test your camera with a Ninja, let me know. But I can't see it being a problem - it's what I would want to do if I were going to buy one.

What I would also do, knowing what an incredible difference the Ninja can make to your workflow and to video quality, is to buy a camera that does work with it. I realize that not everyone has the budget for this right now, but if you're thinking of getting a camera in the near future, why not get one that works with the Ninja?

Testing every camera is a MASSIVE task. We haven't done it yet. We're working our way though them, and this process will probably take quite a lot longer, meanwhile, I'm sure we'll get reports coming in and when we'll publish them. (We'll note whether they've been verified by us or not).

Finally, I've seen reports that the Ninja comes with a 500GB drive. This is wrong: Atomos does not sell storage. You can probably buy it cheaper than we can. Resellers are NOT supposed to bundle storage with the Ninja UNLESS they give you the option of buying it without storage. 500GB of spinning drive is very cheap. No-one would be giving away 500GB of SSD.

If anyone has any other questions, don't hesitate to ask, and I look forward to meeting you at NAB, when we'll be launching the HD-SDI Samurai!

Dave Shapton
President,
Atomos EMEA
 
I can see both sides of the argument. In the end I always say your better off figuring it out yourself, this way there's no one to blame but yourself. On the other hand, A company marketing a product to work with DSLR'S should list the ones they have had success with. If their saying it works with a DSLR, then that means they should have tested some, which means there's cameras this should work with. Otherwise, it would be false advertisment. And I highly doubt this is what these guys are about. I think it's nothing more than just getting to know a new product, which I might add seems like it's going to be AWESOME. I would like to test one myself.
 
It's not new news that the Canon DSLR's don't put out a clean HDMI image. And any external recorders picking up the signal are at the mercy of what the camera puts out. So why exactly are people up in arms again? Keep it calm please.
 
tacomavideo, I would refer you to the post a few before yours where David is quoted as saying many of the DSLR's *DON'T* work well with this, and states the reason's why. If you're camera won't put out a clean feed from the HDMI port, that is something you should already know about. David has published the specs for the Ninja, it's on you to figure out if your equipment will work with those specs or not. Not trying to flame you or anything (I'd rather not get into an online peeing match, let alone with someone only a few miles away that may one day be potential competition/client/freelance employee/freelance employer/work on same project), but it is unreasonable to demand that the owner of such a small start up that is just now shipping it's first product tell you whether your particular camera is compatible when you can easily answer that yourself be looking in the camera's instruction manual and/or plugging it into a monitor. The Ninja requires a clean feed from the camera via the HDMI port... you shouldn't need to wait for Atomos to test your camera for you to know if your camera will provide that or not.
 
David Shapton said:
We seem to be getting criticism for the fact that DSLR manufacturers (and not video camera manufacturers) are unwilling, or unable to output a clean, standard HDMI signal out of their cameras. The only thing we are claiming is that we can record from a valid HDMI source. Of course it's frustrating that more DSLR cameras don't provide a suitable signal, but I don't think it's fair to blame us for that!
Click to expand...
Absolutely agreed.

The Ninja can do nothing about the signal that the DSLR supplies. All it can do is record what the camera gives it. If the signal isn't worth recording, it's not the Ninja's fault. (Nor would it be the Ki Pro Mini's fault, or the Nano's fault). And no DSLR puts out a signal that's worth recording, as of today. So if you're a DSLR user, the Ninja is not going to do much if anything for you. Sorry to be the bearer of that piece of bad news, but that's the way it is.

The only one that comes sort of close is the GH2, but even then it's littered with issues, not the least of which is that it outputs a 60.000i signal, and I don't even know if the Ninja could record that, the Ninja specs list 59.94i. The GH2's output is a non-video-standard frame rate, its color sampling isn't 4:2:2 but instead is some sort of screwed up edge-tooth mess, and it's not really worth recording in the fact that you're not getting 4:2:2 and you're not getting 10-bit and you're going to have to fiddle with post extraction tools to try to even get it to look right -- and that's if the Ninja can even see and deal with a 60.00i signal. I know the Nano can, but I gave up on it after running some tests. And that's the GH2, the "DSLR" with the best HDMI output on the market!

If you're talking about recording from an AF100 or EX1R or HV40 or something like that, then yes, the Ninja should be able to record something excelletn from those outputs. From a DSLR? Don't bother. And I'm not saying that to be mean -- I know everyone wants to believe, I know they'll take this as I'm raining on their parade, but just look at the results -- it's simply not worth it. The DSLR is not a video camera and doesn't output a robust high-quality HDMI signal. Maybe next generation, but not today.

If newer cameras improve on that, then hey, revisit it at that time. As of now, no -- there's nothing that any company can do (Ninja, Ki Pro Mini, NanoFlash, any of them) to improve on what the camera is putting out. All they can do is record what the camera outputs. And the DSLRs do not bother to put out a high-quality recordable HDMI signal.

What I would also do, knowing what an incredible difference the Ninja can make to your workflow and to video quality, is to buy a camera that does work with it. I realize that not everyone has the budget for this right now, but if you're thinking of getting a camera in the near future, why not get one that works with the Ninja?
Click to expand...
Agreed. Don't buy something that doesn't do what you want! Don't buy a GH2 and complain that it doesn't do 25p -- it clearly and obviously doesn't do 25p, so if you need 25p, don't buy it. And don't buy a Ninja to use with a DSLR, or don't buy a DSLR to use with a Ninja. They Don't Work Together. No currently-available DSLR works worth spit with any external recorder. That's the simple fact. Now, understand what I'm saying -- you might be able to plug the DSLR into the Ninja and press "record", and the Ninja may be able to record what the DSLR is putting out. But it won't be high-quality video, because the DSLR doesn't output high-quality video.

If you want a Ninja, use it with a camera that can take advantage of it. HMC40/80/150. AF100. EX1R. V7U. XF300. HM700 or HM100. Any proper video camera with an HDMI output should (SHOULD) work fine.

Testing every camera is a MASSIVE task. We haven't done it yet. We're working our way though them, and this process will probably take quite a lot longer, meanwhile, I'm sure we'll get reports coming in and when we'll publish them. (We'll note whether they've been verified by us or not).
Click to expand...
Testing is indeed a massive task, especially when cameras get obsoleted and replaced so quickly, and when there are variations like Magic Lantern out there. And there's a further issue -- testing as to whether it will work AT ALL, and then testing to see whether it's WORTHWHILE. Those are two very different things.

Anyone who's interested in the Ninja -- hold your horses, ask your questions, and let the early adopters try stuff and answer it. And if you're considering becoming an early adopter -- don't buy based on what you wish the system did. Buy based on what it ACTUALLY does. If what it actually does isn't what you wish it did, then don't buy it.

Dave, thanks for coming on and answering questions -- obviously your product has stirred up a tremendous amount of interest and there's going to be a ton of questions as people reconcile wishes with reality and find out what the unit actually does, who it helps, what it does for you, what benefits they can take advantage of, and what it cannot do. We look forward to getting to the bottom of this so that our users can get the most from their cameras and from external recorders.
 
Last edited:
I just wanted to add here that we've been getting great results with the majority of VIDEO cameras. From the high-end ones (like the PMW-F3) to some soon-to-be obselete HDV ones. This actually great news because if you can pick up an old HDV camera with HDMI (like a Sony Z5, which we have tested), and pair it with a Ninja, you'll be able to get better pictures than when the camera was new! So, don't just go for the obvious choices. Any video camera with good glass on the front and an HDMI output should be worth considering.

Just want to clarify one thing: I'm President of Atomos for Europe, Middle East and Africa (EMEA). I'm not the owner or founder of the company (Jeromy's the CEO), but I guess that a few people in and around Europe know me from the past few decades. I'm based in the UK, and that helps to deal with the issue of timezones for a company based in Australia!



Dave Shapton
President
Atomos EMEA
 
Hi Dave,

let me say that i'm really amazed that you brought this Recorder to the market! A real revolution to me and many others...
just 2 questions: in the video it seems that you can record the hdmi audio AND the external inputs of the ninja at the same time - correct? so it's a 4 track solution for my ex1?
and 2nd: will the sdi version have hdmi as well?
can't wait to get my hands on the samurai!!!
 
let me say that i'm really amazed that you brought this Recorder to the market! A real revolution to me and many others...
just 2 questions: in the video it seems that you can record the hdmi audio AND the external inputs of the ninja at the same time - correct? so it's a 4 track solution for my ex1?
and 2nd: will the sdi version have hdmi as well?
can't wait to get my hands on the samurai!!!
Click to expand...
Thanks for your enthusiasm! There's some very advanced stuff inside the Ninja and Samurai that makes it all possible.

You can't record 4 tracks using HDMI and analogue audio in: I'm sorry if we gave that impression - it's quite clear if you look closely: there is a touchscreen menu that lets you select between HDMI audio input and Analogue.

The Samurai only has SDI. You'll have to have a Ninja and a Samurai if you want to record from both types of source. We wanted to keep the cost down and we guessed that most users will want one or the other. It's a hard decision to leave things out, but the priority was to have a range of products that are available to fit most scenarios.
Dave
 
Thanx Dave!
i wonder why it's not possible to record all 4 inputs... i thought it's a mere software thing to "trick" the encoder to take channels 3 and 4 (5/6) from the AD-Converter of the analogue inputs to record to the 6channel hdmi... just some routing... but what do i know ;-) kipromini doesn't do it as well... a real shame... i'd be happy to pay a liitle more though for both hdmi and sdi, but i guess you'll be in the price range of the kipromini then...
anyways, great gadget! can't wait to get one... if you need any review or whatever let me know.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top