stephenlnoe
Well-known member
That is the first time I've seen it (although it has been talked about). Do you have the particulars about the shot? Full zoom? Was the fringe evident in the viewfinder? Was that a production model HD100?
HD100 + Mini35 Footage!!!
- Thread starter Tibby
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Barry_Green
Moderator
I shot that shot. It was shot at the WEVA convention. Full telephoto, yes. The fringe was clearly evident in the viewfinder and also on the monitor connected to the camera. I was flabbergasted by it, I spent quite a while trying to figure out what it could be 'cause I couldn't believe that such a glaring defect would be released. I asked JVC what status they considered this camera, and they told me "this is a production model".
I've seen examples of *severe* chromatic aberration from this camera, from footage taken by someone else, although I don't know if I have permission to re-post the photos that show it. It's really bad. I'm talking about a double-image, an off-color shadow. It's more evident on the edges of the frame than the center. And it's more evident under full-telephoto conditions.
I've seen examples of *severe* chromatic aberration from this camera, from footage taken by someone else, although I don't know if I have permission to re-post the photos that show it. It's really bad. I'm talking about a double-image, an off-color shadow. It's more evident on the edges of the frame than the center. And it's more evident under full-telephoto conditions.
stephenlnoe
Well-known member
I wonder what Fujinon has to say about it or is the stock lens not Fujinon's?
Just for grins I did a rack focus with a DVC30 for comparison (DVC30's fabulous Leica 16X) and here are the results.
Click here for wmv (**Deleted now**)
Another question, how similar is the focus assist to the EVF Detail mode on a Panasonic?
Just for grins I did a rack focus with a DVC30 for comparison (DVC30's fabulous Leica 16X) and here are the results.
Click here for wmv (**Deleted now**)
Another question, how similar is the focus assist to the EVF Detail mode on a Panasonic?
Barry_Green
Moderator
Wow -- not a whole lot of rack-focus going on there, is there? 
But not a hint of chromatic aberration either...
The stock lens is a Fujinon, yes. Both lenses for the HD100 are Fujinons.
Focus Assist on the HD100 is basically the same thing as EVF DTL on the DVX, except that it turns the LCD black 'n' white and only the "peaking" info is in color -- not the natural color of the scene, but a specific outline color (I believe you can choose red, or green, or yellow, etc). So if you have "red" selected, you see a B&W image with red outlines around the in-focus bits.
In adequate light it works really well; I believe Nate was as impressed as I was with how it performed. Someone raised the question of how it performs under low light conditions, and I can't answer that, I didn't try it in those circumstances.
But not a hint of chromatic aberration either...The stock lens is a Fujinon, yes. Both lenses for the HD100 are Fujinons.
Focus Assist on the HD100 is basically the same thing as EVF DTL on the DVX, except that it turns the LCD black 'n' white and only the "peaking" info is in color -- not the natural color of the scene, but a specific outline color (I believe you can choose red, or green, or yellow, etc). So if you have "red" selected, you see a B&W image with red outlines around the in-focus bits.
In adequate light it works really well; I believe Nate was as impressed as I was with how it performed. Someone raised the question of how it performs under low light conditions, and I can't answer that, I didn't try it in those circumstances.
stephenlnoe
Well-known member
Only enough rack to get from the glass back to the front :thumbsup: , I suppose I could have pulled focus from the back of the table to the front but the result would have been the same. I am very surprised by the Fujinon as well. This is why I'm suspicious of the Pro label right now. I'm reasonably sure that JVC would not just make the camera body and leave the lens 'duties' to Fujinon. Do the same aberration's happen at mid zoom or 3/4 zoom as well?
People bring up the 'low light' questions alot these days. Have we all become Dogme shooters?
People bring up the 'low light' questions alot these days. Have we all become Dogme shooters?
stephenlnoe
Well-known member
Hi guys,
You're M2T clips reminded me of some commercial footage so I made you a proof (in all of 10 minutes).
Click here (DivX hi def)
The commercial is made for Eastern Europe.
You're M2T clips reminded me of some commercial footage so I made you a proof (in all of 10 minutes).
Click here (DivX hi def)
The commercial is made for Eastern Europe.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Oh my gosh...
dregenthal
Veteran
M2
M2
According to Brian, on Friday, it looks like the first ones will be out the door this week (I have one on order). Haven't heard anything new regarding the Guerilla 35. Cross your fingers for RedRock, he's been hard at it.
M2
Rocketeer said:
According to Brian, on Friday, it looks like the first ones will be out the door this week (I have one on order). Haven't heard anything new regarding the Guerilla 35. Cross your fingers for RedRock, he's been hard at it.
Barry_Green
Moderator
I think stephenlnoe's on to something! Next DVX festival, how 'bout we supply the footage, and then the filmmakers have to do something creative with it in editing/post... ?
stephenlnoe
Well-known member
Barry, You supply the footage and the editors have to cut it to a genre. It could be a fun challenge.
Did you notice on the original video there was an abnormality in the color satruation on one of the supplied clips? Take a look when you get the time. It is on the Greenery -A-R.m2t clip. I've supplied a gif so that you can see where to look on the original clip for the issue. Click here to see the location. Barry and others, what are your thoughts on the loss of satuation in the original m2t? Glare?
Another question, do the same aberration's we were discussing happen at mid zoom or 3/4 zoom as well with the Fujinon lens?
Did you notice on the original video there was an abnormality in the color satruation on one of the supplied clips? Take a look when you get the time. It is on the Greenery -A-R.m2t clip. I've supplied a gif so that you can see where to look on the original clip for the issue. Click here to see the location. Barry and others, what are your thoughts on the loss of satuation in the original m2t? Glare?
Another question, do the same aberration's we were discussing happen at mid zoom or 3/4 zoom as well with the Fujinon lens?
CharlesPapert
Director of Photography
Stephen, I'd love to see what you did with my footage but I can't view that clip (must be a Mac thing)--any way you could also post it in Quicktime? Thanks either way!
stephenlnoe
Well-known member
If you can watch a DivX then Click here. Right now I have some issues with MOV because Apple is still working on perfecting QTPro7 for Windows. The beta I have installed just does not encode HDV. DivX on the other hand is really great for high def.
Take care and once again, thanks for the nice article. One more thing Charles, did you see the saturation issue I was referring to? Is that because of a glare?
Take care and once again, thanks for the nice article. One more thing Charles, did you see the saturation issue I was referring to? Is that because of a glare?
Yuval Shrem
Active member
Focus assist with Mini35
Focus assist with Mini35
The article mentioned using the Focus Assist function of the HD100 with the Mini35.
How did it work???
How could the camera controll the 35mm lens?
Or have I missanderstud it? :embarasse
Focus assist with Mini35
The article mentioned using the Focus Assist function of the HD100 with the Mini35.
How did it work???
How could the camera controll the 35mm lens?
Or have I missanderstud it? :embarasse
Barry_Green
Moderator
You misunderstood it.
The "focus assist" is not really anything more than a "peaking" function. It sharpens items in the viewfinder, drawing a colored red line around items that are in focus.
When using the mini35 there are two levels of focus you have to do -- you have to focus the relay lens onto the ground glass, and then you have to focus the cine lens onto your subject. These are both manual procedures. When both elements are properly focused, the "focus assist"/"peaking" function will show areas of sharp focus.
The camera has no control over anything to do with focusing.
The "focus assist" is not really anything more than a "peaking" function. It sharpens items in the viewfinder, drawing a colored red line around items that are in focus.
When using the mini35 there are two levels of focus you have to do -- you have to focus the relay lens onto the ground glass, and then you have to focus the cine lens onto your subject. These are both manual procedures. When both elements are properly focused, the "focus assist"/"peaking" function will show areas of sharp focus.
The camera has no control over anything to do with focusing.
Yuval Shrem
Active member
Thanks, Barry!
That makes it much clearer
I wish Panasonic included something like that in the HVX200... (I'm planning on buying one)
Reading this article it seems to be very difficult to do without this feature (when using Mini35).
BTW, is it practical to use the Mini35 on a steadicam?
That makes it much clearer
I wish Panasonic included something like that in the HVX200... (I'm planning on buying one)
Reading this article it seems to be very difficult to do without this feature (when using Mini35).
BTW, is it practical to use the Mini35 on a steadicam?
Barry_Green
Moderator
Yuval Shrem said:
Included something like what -- "focus assist"? Panasonic does way better than focus assist -- they offer an actual pixel-for-pixel extraction so you can focus using 100% native resolution on the LCD. You see a small patch of the center of the frame on the LCD, displayed at 100% pure resolution. You also have "peaking" so you have the same basic functionality as JVC's "focus assist", but in addition you have substantially more precision by being able to use the vf zoom-in feature (which, IINM, Panasonic also calls "focus assist"). Plus, for those times you may want it, the Panasonic will feature autofocus.
Focusing any high-def camera is extremely more crucial than it is with standard-def. HD is not at all tolerant of focus errors. If you then compound the issue by using something like the mini35, which reduces your depth of field down to a matter of inches, then yes -- you will need some sort of focus aid. Fortunately all three of the current-and-soon offerings (Z1, HVX, and HD100) offer focus assist aids. The HVX and HD100 versions can be used while recording; unfortunately the Z1's can't.
A full vest-mounted "real" Steadicam could accomodate it, yes. There's no way on this earth (or any other) that you're going to fly one of these cameras on a little handheld GlideCam or Steadicam Jr when you've got the mini35 mounted!
Also, it is probably quite a bit less practical to use the mini35 on a steadicam anyway. With 35mm film you'd probably rather stop down the lens significantly, as much as possible, to have a deeper depth of field to give you a lot more leeway with focus. With the mini35 you can only stop down the lens so far before the ground glass starts to show up in the shot; I think around f/8 is as far as one should go.
So if you put on a wide-angle prime lens, stop down to f/8 (of course, you have to bring enough light to light the scene so that f/8 is reasonable) and fly it on a full-size vest-based Steadicam, then yes it can be done. But it wouldn't be simple, easy, or cheap.
(of course, before I get in too far over my head, I should wait for steadicam master and mini35 owner/operator Charles Papert to chime in here and tell us the "real deal"!)
CharlesPapert
Director of Photography
You rang??!
These days, "Steadicam" means a lot of different things to different people. The fact that you can buy a Steadicam Flyer for $6K that performs virtually as well as the $80K big rig within its weight class, it can cause a bit of confusion.
Once you plunk a Mini35 (or other device that does the same sort of thing) on the front of your DV camera, you have entered a new world that requires more attention in certain areas. In the article I talked about the issue of following focus while shooting wide-open in the 35mm world, which is not easy even for those who do it for a living. The focus-assist concept is a really interesting concept for those who prefer to pull their own focus, which is most DV shooters.
But what about Steadicam? Barry, if DP's had to accomodate an f8 on set when the Steadicam was called for, I can assure you the Steadicam would be sent straight to the truck! Rather, the AC is expected to pull perfect focus with both camera and subject moving, at any stop they are given, including wide open. It's an amazing skill, and there are times I have felt that the assistant has a tougher job than I do.
Technologically, one should have a wireless follow focus (hardwire systems are an annoyance, and don't even think about pulling by hand off a follow focus or the lens!)--those run anywhere from $8K up to $20K for the system. The Steadicam in use has to be able to support the 15lbs or so that a Mini35 DV setup typically weighs, which puts it just in or just out of the reach of the Flyer (which doesn't accomodate most focus systems in terms of power and mounting anyway).
So; the question "is it practical to use the Mini35 on the Steadicam" might be summed up as "yes, if you have access to the right tools and personnel". If not, my feeling is that it's just easier to pull the camera off the Mini35 and shoot your stabilized shots that way--chances are they will intercut just fine, and you can use a much simpler rig too.
Some images of the Mini35 on a full-size Steadicam:
http://homepage.mac.com/chupap/Film/PhotoAlbum36.html
and you can look at "The Undecided" which has a link on that page; that was shot with the Mini35, and there are some great Steadicam walking shots that my pal Ron Baldwin operated for me a minute or two in.
These days, "Steadicam" means a lot of different things to different people. The fact that you can buy a Steadicam Flyer for $6K that performs virtually as well as the $80K big rig within its weight class, it can cause a bit of confusion.
Once you plunk a Mini35 (or other device that does the same sort of thing) on the front of your DV camera, you have entered a new world that requires more attention in certain areas. In the article I talked about the issue of following focus while shooting wide-open in the 35mm world, which is not easy even for those who do it for a living. The focus-assist concept is a really interesting concept for those who prefer to pull their own focus, which is most DV shooters.
But what about Steadicam? Barry, if DP's had to accomodate an f8 on set when the Steadicam was called for, I can assure you the Steadicam would be sent straight to the truck! Rather, the AC is expected to pull perfect focus with both camera and subject moving, at any stop they are given, including wide open. It's an amazing skill, and there are times I have felt that the assistant has a tougher job than I do.
Technologically, one should have a wireless follow focus (hardwire systems are an annoyance, and don't even think about pulling by hand off a follow focus or the lens!)--those run anywhere from $8K up to $20K for the system. The Steadicam in use has to be able to support the 15lbs or so that a Mini35 DV setup typically weighs, which puts it just in or just out of the reach of the Flyer (which doesn't accomodate most focus systems in terms of power and mounting anyway).
So; the question "is it practical to use the Mini35 on the Steadicam" might be summed up as "yes, if you have access to the right tools and personnel". If not, my feeling is that it's just easier to pull the camera off the Mini35 and shoot your stabilized shots that way--chances are they will intercut just fine, and you can use a much simpler rig too.
Some images of the Mini35 on a full-size Steadicam:
http://homepage.mac.com/chupap/Film/PhotoAlbum36.html
and you can look at "The Undecided" which has a link on that page; that was shot with the Mini35, and there are some great Steadicam walking shots that my pal Ron Baldwin operated for me a minute or two in.
stephenlnoe
Well-known member
Another question for you gents that have had your hands on the camera: The brochure says the audio on board is Mpeg1 (layer2) but the m2t files you've posted are reporting PCM 48k 16b properties. What gives? Is the audio PCM or MPEG1 in this camera?