HD resolutions

A

araujofh

Veteran
Hello folks,

I have got a question regarding the two HD recording formats available in HD. Let me get this straight, there is only 720p, right? We don't have 720i.
You get 720p at 24p, 30p and 60p, and variable frame rate.
Now when you enter the 1080 arena, you have 1080p at 24p and 1080i at 60i, right?
Why is it that you need 720p to get variable frame rate? Couldn't you achieve that in 1080p?
Is there a reason for that?

Thanks in advance

Fidel.
 
Ok, I now know that there isn't interlaced in 720p.
Now I read in another post that there is no difference between 1080i and 720p. How is that possible? I thought 1080i was meant for video look.
Could someone tell me why is that?
As for the other questions I am still looking for some answers.
 
you also have 1080 30p .

there is no difference in data rate between the two 1o80I 60 fps and 720 60p but the do look different
 
But it all depends if you shoot progressive or interlaced, right?
If you shoot 1080i, then it will look like video, right?
But if you shoot 1080p, then it should look better than 720p, is that correct?
 
In terms od resolution and frame size, yes 1080p should look better, but in terms of motion, it should be exactly the same as 720p if both are running at the same framerate. something like 720p60 vs. 1080i60 is another story ...
 
i guess than that you use 1080i if you want that reality look, and 1080p 24p if you want the film look, right?
I practice I guess we use 1080p 24p (or 25p) most of the time if we want a film out, and 720p for slow motion, right?

EDIT: Well, I guess the difference between 1080i 60i and 1080p 60p is similar to the DVX 480p 60p and 480 60i. Did I get that right?

Thanks in advance

Fidel.
 
iamloser said:
more resolution is not the equivilent of looking better but it will look higher res/more detailed
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Yes, that's exactly what I meant ... I need to word my answers better ...
 
araujofh said:
i guess than that you use 1080i if you want that reality look, and 1080p 24p if you want the film look, right?
I practice I guess we use 1080p 24p (or 25p) most of the time if we want a film out, and 720p for slow motion, right?

EDIT: Well, I guess the difference between 1080i 60i and 1080p 60p is similar to the DVX 480p 60p and 480 60i. Did I get that right?

Thanks in advance

Fidel.
Click to expand...

There is no 1080p 60p, only 1080i 60i ....
 
Guys, remember... we have to wait and see screen grabs.
But till then this is how I understand it (please correct and/or add to this):
The frame rate is what changes the "feel/look" of the footage... there are a pile of other ways to change it but this is the main setting to master and understand. 24P is the "film" look and 30P and 60P are "TV/reality" looks. Resolution, on the other hand, only deals with that exactly: resolution. Basically the size of each photograph/frame. I understand that between interlaced and progressive resolution settings you will also see a difference in the look (eg: 1080i and 1080p).

I would love it if one of the guru guys came by this thread and quickly posted a list of all the possible resolution and framerate combinations with a quick explanation of what each of these numbers mean and how to read them together with a quick list of possible uses for each. This has been done without the list of possible uses, but what I would like is to put an end to my conusion on the ps and the is.... sounds funny right... it is just that some of the knowledgeable guys put them only after resolution and not the frame rate, and then the next person does it backwards, and then I'll see somebody else putting them on both numbers...

Please let me know where to mail the tuition fees.
 
There is no 1080/60p, but there is 1080/30p and 1080/24p. And, of course, 1080/60i.

There is no 720/i at all. 720 is always progressive.

720/60p and 1080/60i will both give the "video" look, if played back at full frame rate.

In the choice between 720/24p and 1080/24p, 1080 should win easily -- it's got twice as many pixels but the same frame rate.

You'd make the choice between 1080 and 720 on a few factors: first, your intended playback device. If you're playing back on a plasma or LCD, those displays are most likely 720p native, so 720p source footage will probably look better on them than rescaled/downrezzed 1080 footage.

Second, there's storage space and recording time to consider. 720/24p lets you fit two and a half times as much footage on a P2 card, as compared to 1080/24p.

Third, if you want to take advantage of variable frame rates, that's where 720p shines. If you want exquisite film-style slow motion, shooting 720/60p will deliver. If you want to shoot fast action sequences like karate fights or something, shooting 720/22p (and playing back at 720/24p) will make your footage just that little extra bit faster, like they do in Hollywood. Those are options that you don't really have in 1080.

You could always cross-convert 720/60p for use in a 1080/24p project to take advantage of the slow-mo capability, but it would involve significant up-rezzing.

Now I read in another post that there is no difference between 1080i and 720p. How is that possible? I thought 1080i was meant for video look.
Click to expand...
Perhaps what they meant to say is that there's not much actual difference in the amount of detail resolved between them, considering that 1080i has to lose resolution to its de-flicker field-blending process. But 1080i definitely looks like "video", and so does 720p/60.
 
There is 1080p, but not at 60p... only 60i (1080i), 30p, 24p and 25p (in PAL).

In 720p there are framerates up to 60p.

I do not believe there is 720 60i... but I could well be wrong. Anyone know for sure?
 
From the horse's mouth - Panasonic website:

• 1080/60i, 1080/24p, 1080/30p, 720/60p, 720/24p, 720/30p, 480/60i, 480/24p, 480/30p

• Some variable frame rates in 720p mode

That is for the US model
 
Barry_Green said:
You'd make the choice between 1080 and 720 on a few factors: first, your intended playback device. If you're playing back on a plasma or LCD, those displays are most likely 720p native, so 720p source footage will probably look better on them than rescaled/downrezzed 1080 footage.
Click to expand...

I think I understand. So you would only use 1080 if you are shooting for the big screen. Anything you want to shoot for TV or DVD release you would want to shoot in 720 because there is more 720 native HD TVs in American households nowadays... I've thought about this myself as I browsed through Circuit City and Best Buys. "HD" TVs being sold are mostly 720s... And then on top of this, the HVX will shine with a myriad of features and incredible flexibility for your buck at 720... did I get this right?

You can shoot 1080 and extract the 720 image to get a little extra zoom if you have a shot where you could use a lens and you would shoot it in 24P or 30P or 60I anyways with no compromise to the image.
 
Well, maybe but not necessarily. Several (in fact most) of the HD broadcasters are broadcasting in 1080. So if you were delivering footage to an NBC or CBS affiliate, or PBS or Discovery, you'd probably be better off shooting 1080.

If you're just aiming for the best image possible, 1080 is probably it. 1080p on the HVX will give 50% more luma pixels, and 3x as much chroma resolution, as 720p on the HD100. I would expect (having not seen the camera) that I would use it in 1080/24p mode probably 90% of the time, unless specifically shooting for a 720p display. It's just so much higher resolution. 720/24p gives you about a million pixels per frame, 1080/24p gives you two million pixels per frame, with identical motion rendition.

If you know for a fact your footage will be displayed on a 720p device (such as a closed system like if you were shooting a corporate video for a corporation to display on its in-house 720p plasmas) then yes, definitely 720p is the way to go. If you're shooting for a 720p network (like Fox or ABC or ESPN) then yes, definitely 720p. If you're shooting for the big screen, 1080p is no doubt better. If you're shooting for a 1080 network (PBS/NBC/CBS/Discovery) then 1080 is better.

If you're making an HD-DVD or blu-ray disk for distribution to the public at large... well... that is indeed a question. I don't know which way you should go for that. I'd presume that 720 would yield better-looking results on the vast majority of televisions out there, simply because most of them are 720. However, keep in mind that something around 95% of the households in America don't have *any* sort of HDTV, so if/when they do start adopting HDTV, who's to say that 720's installed-base advantage will continue? If people started mass-adopting 1080 sets, that would change the formula significantly.
 
Exactly... if you are shooting for a network, you will know what they want. It is the DVD release that poses the question... for now 720P is best, but hopefully in the near future 1080P TVs will take over... so maybe 1080 is best so that it looks good in the future, then again that's something each production will have to contemplate on an individual basis.

What will the HVX's limitations be when shooting 1080... no slo-mo and no 60P, but will there also be limitations on shutter speed? Anything else?
 
You can still do some limited variable frame-rate stuff; you should be able to get 4, 6, 8, 12, 15, 24, and 30 progressive frames per second. And you can still use 1080/60i to slow down to become slow motion, the same way you can in the DVX. In short, it'll be way more capable than any other camera in its price class.

And, it remains to be seen how well 720p cross-converts to 1080. It might turn out that variable-frame-rate footage looks perfectly acceptable when converted to 1080 -- so it might not be that "limited" at all.

Definitely 720p offers the most flexibility, but the cam looks like it'll be no slouch in 1080 mode either!
 
Nice! Just the possibility that 720 might be converted to 1080 without looking all that bad is great! If you have only one scene that makes you consider shooting in 720, then we might end up being able to shoot those projects in 1080 and that single scene in 720 with a little of post effort.
I know 60fps to 24fps is done and higher frame rates also, but it is also possible to shoot 30fps and display it at 24fps, right? Every fifth frame is deleted... or is that not common practice? (aka: doesn't look right)

Also, will the 60I to 24P shots look different from the regular 24P scenes? How different will the interlaced frames look from progressive ones... sorry if I don't know how to word things properly.

:cheesy: Thank you!!! :cheesy:
 
USLatinContent said:
but it is also possible to shoot 30fps and display it at 24fps, right? Every fifth frame is deleted... or is that not common practice? (aka: doesn't look right)
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Not sure what you mean by 30fps -- some people use that terminology to describe 60i, but you could also be meaning 30p. I'll presume from your "dropping fifth frame" description that you meant 30p. You would not want to put 30p on a 24p timeline and just drop one frame out of five -- that would look jerky and awful. If you want to put 30p on a 24p timeline you'd want to play the 30p footage back at 80% speed, which would give you a perfect slow-motion simulation. Of course with the 720p mode, you can get frame-accurate versions of any frame rate the camera supports. But in 1080, the only "officially supported" frame rates are 24p, 30p, and 60i. I believe it will however be capable of doing the same limited variable frame rates we can get out of the DVX, so you should be able to get 4p, 6p, 8p, 12p, and 15p too.

Also, will the 60I to 24P shots look different from the regular 24P scenes? How different will the interlaced frames look from progressive ones... sorry if I don't know how to word things properly.
Click to expand...
Yes, if you were using 60i to simulate slow-motion for the 1080/24p mode, the frames will look different -- they'll be significantly lower in vertical resolution. We do the same technique with the DVX and it looks pretty good, the very fact that the shot is moving slower conditions the user to accept that it looks different. But it's definitely lower vertical res.

I would suspect that the 720/60p frame would be the better place to start for 60fps slow motion in a 1080/24p project. I think 720p up-rezzed might hold more final resolution than 1080/60i de-interlaced. But, hey, that's just a guess; we'll know more once we see the footage!
 
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