HD Camera WON'T DO ANY GOOD

Re: HD Camera WON'T DO ANY GOOD

[quote author=braw link=board=HDV;num=1108359684;start=30#37 date=02/18/05 at 10:18:36]This will amount to a veritable buttload of cash.[/quote]
Of course, because of that, in the short term, DVCProHD hard disk recording might actually interfere with P2's proliferation.
 
Re: HD Camera WON'T DO ANY GOOD

Till the moment they set to an equal price. I think it will be when P2 go as 1 hour HD record (i think it will became a standard card). Then nobody will care about hard disks being able to record more time than P2, as long as they don´t get lot cheaper. But it will be good anyway because it will mean plurality in the recording system and more people will buy these cameras, with wider options; tape, p2, HDD, 24p, 25p, 30p, 50i, 60i... Whoa!!!! I can´t wait! i´m gonna have a heart attack waiting for more news... I look addict, do i? :o


It´s getting so much noise around HDX it´s impossible to create more! even people who don´t love panasonic is speaking about it and getting furious. More news please!!!
 
Re: HD Camera WON'T DO ANY GOOD

[quote author=mr._guiyotinne link=board=HDV;num=1108359684;start=30#41 date=02/18/05 at 15:10:24]Whoa!!!! I can´t wait! i´m gonna have a heart attack waiting for more news... I look addict, do i?  It´s getting so much noise around HDX it´s impossible to create more! even people who don´t love panasonic is speaking about it and getting furious. More news please!!![/quote]
Yeah!  I know what you mean.  Jan, any chance of another more detailed "leak" somewhere?   ;D
 
Re: HD Camera WON'T DO ANY GOOD

[quote author=braw link=board=HDV;num=1108359684;start=30#37 date=02/18/05 at 10:18:36]

Man I hope you're right! It would be hard to justify spending that same amount for storage as the camera itself.[/quote]

A lot of assumptions are being made about the cost and capacities of P2 cards. From what I've read, Panasonic wants to include P2 technology even in its high-end consumer/low-end prosumer lines (remember the "about $3,000" P2 HD cam shown in balsa mockup at NAB?). At $4,000, $2,000, or even $1,000, a storage medium with only 2 to 4 GB of capacity doesn't seem too viable except for pro cameras costing tens of thousands of dollars, and then probably only for SD cameras, where a lower data rate means longer recording times. I'm pretty sure Panasonic knows that.

Even assuming that it costs a lot of money to produce a 4-GB P2 card, nothing is stopping Panasonic from selling the cards at little or no profit -- or even a loss -- if it will help to promote the technology. As its costs drop it could recoup its losses, and by then the industry would be hooked. It's the reverse of "Give away the razor and make a fortune selling the blades." Gillette tried that when it released its first safety razor, and for awhile it worked. Then literally hundreds of blade manufacturers sprang up. Eventually, Gillette began a program of trying one new shaving "technology" after another to stay competitive and create a near monopoly on blades compatible with its razors. Panasonic can't afford to give away the "razor'" -- even if by Cinealta or Varicam standards "under $10,000" seems like a giveaway. But it can do everything possible to make P2 technology more affordable (and therefore more practical).

As to capacity, who knows what Panasonic has up its sleeve?
 
Re: HD Camera WON'T DO ANY GOOD

As to capacity, who knows what Panasonic has up its sleeve?
Click to expand...

Exactly. You can be sure that the capacity is there. I don't see a company gambling on a storage format that only has a storage capacity of 4gb. No way. I bet the technology is there and once they test the waters and see how people bite the bigger cards will hit the market.
 
Re: HD Camera WON'T DO ANY GOOD

Well, here's another way to think of the capacity/P2 issue.  First, keep in mind that while some are saying "4 minutes is a 'joke'", those of us who shoot film are well, well, well entrenched in the 4-minute limit.  A 400' magazine of 35mm film only runs for four and a half minutes.  That's all you get, so you have to plan your shots, but it's a well-established workflow.

Now, here's where it gets interesting: when rolling tape, how much of what hits the tape is "junk"?  Stuff you just KNOW you're never going to use?  Stuff that gets interrupted by a plane flying over, or someone totally ruins their line, or a cell phone goes off or something... well, on tape you just live with it, and you end up shooting an hour's worth of tape to get 10-15 minutes of takes.  But on the P2 card, you can just DELETE any clips you know you're not going to use.  As soon as you finish shooting, if you know that the take is useless, just delete it.  Using that method, you could get much more efficient storage on the P2 card than you ever would have on tape... maybe at a ratio of 4:1 (discarding the junk, the pre-roll, etc.)  So your P2 card might only store 4 minutes, but you may get on there all the "good stuff" that you would have spent 15 minutes of tape on.  And, since the P2 card will likely store 2.5 times as much when shooting 24p mode, you're looking at 10 minutes of actual storage, to store what you may have wasted about 40 minutes of tape on.  

When shooting film, you're just incredibly more efficient, disciplined, etc. as compared to when someone's shooting tape.  With tape you roll the camera, then you get someone with the slate in there, then someone finds out that they need a makeup touch-up, and then a truck starts backing up and beeping so you wait for that, etc... all the time, the tape is rolling.  When shooting film, you don't fool around -- you make absolutely sure that everything is perfect and ready to go, the actors are rehearsed and know their lines, and they know they better get it right because that film is costing us $20 to $130 per minute... and then you pull the trigger and get the take, and you're done. And you don't shoot it again unless you need to.

So I think we'll see a DIFFERENT workflow with P2 cards.  But I think it will  be a completely practical workflow, emulating the workflow film shooters have been using for the past ten decades.
 
Re: HD Camera WON'T DO ANY GOOD

Another idea. Maybe Panasonic is changing the market by making differences not in the codec and the recording method but in the CCDs size.

I mean HDX will record in three formats in 1/3 CCDs, but wont have 60p, then the next step camera will be 1/2 CCDs and maybe they are thinking on the next Varicam to put these Cmos 35mm size. So the price is choosen by the quality and characteristics you want to have in your image rather than the codecs you will use to record your Going-To-Oscar script...

Not a bad one...
 
Re: HD Camera WON'T DO ANY GOOD

[quote author=mr._guiyotinne link=board=HDV;num=1108359684;start=45#47 date=02/20/05 at 07:25:39]
I mean HDX will record in three formats in 1/3 CCDs, but wont have 60p[/quote]
Says who? Certainly not Panasonic, they haven't released any details. It could be 1/2" at 60p, it could be 1/4.7" at 30p... it could be CMOS, or it could be conventional CCDs... no details are known. Don't rule anything out until the official announcement is made.
 
Re: HD Camera WON'T DO ANY GOOD

ok,ok. I´m sorry. I just read somewere in all these threads tha probably they would keep the 60 for the biggers. I shut up and wait. But it´s like a boy anoying parents about the xmas present. Never wanted to rule anything.

You know Brarry? i usually have this problem... The foot IN mouth desease :-[

i apologize. But they could stopped this leak before it reached the street. Better to be surprised than anxious. I feel like a cat playing cards with Curiosity and waiting for the hit...

-Mum what´s the present?
-You know, something you were waiting for a long time. But you will have to wait two month to open it.
-But i want it now!
-Yeah, And i want world peace. Go play till then...
- Oh, man!
 
Re: HD Camera WON'T DO ANY GOOD

Sorry if it came off harsh -- I wasn't trying to be harsh, I was just pointing out that nobody's confirmed what you were saying. Again, no problem, no problem at all!
 
Re: HD Camera WON'T DO ANY GOOD

I would just like to add one thing, even though it's slightly off the topic. A lot of people are craving larger CCD's, and many indies want 35mm sized devices.

I just hope these people realise how difficult it is to keep focus with shallow depth of field. One reason why 35mm film productions use focus pullers. Take many of the dolly's that indie moviemakers use. Often the camera operator has to push it along. Yesterday I was expected to push along one of these dolly's, make the adjustments on the tripod and accurately adjust the focus for the approaching subject in fairly low light. It's very very difficult to do all of that smoothly and accurately.

Shallow depth of field brings it's own problems and you may well find yourselves cursing it on an actual production much like film guys used to do.
 
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