HD-AVI files for editing in FCE

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kookooframe

Well-known member
I'm sending some of my old Super 8 film footage to a transfer house. They will put it on a hard drive in HD-AVI (motion jpeg) files. They assured me that I will not have a problem with Final Cut accepting the files.

I don't really know if I've ever worked with motion jpeg files or not. I've mostly been editing HDV footage from my Canon A1 in FCE4.

Does this transfer plan sound reasonable? I intend to edit some of the converted Super 8 footage as a project in itself, and I would also be dropping some of the files into sequences of HDV footage shot on my Canon A1 (usually 24F).

Any thoughts from the more file-savvy appreciated...
 
HD-AVI? That sounds like a Windows format not going to be happy in FCE. You want .MOV files. Not sure which codecs FCE would like to receive though. Any chance you can upgrade to FCP?

-Noah
 
Thanks, Noah. Someone a while back had mentioned the same thing to me about AVI not being happy in a Mac. Hmm. I've been waiting to upgrade to FCS 3 -- should come out soon. Maybe I'll wait until then to get the transfers done.

Could you tell me, what codecs would be good for FCP?
 
My codec of choice would be ProRes HQ- that works only with FCP though, FCE won't touch it.

Noah
 
I've traded DNxHD files back and forth with a guy who uses FCE. If that won't fly, then Quicktime PNG files are essentially universal. Purchase QTPro. It's cheap and will allow you to do significant conversion work on your Mac.

FCE is definitely not as flexible in terms of codecs as FCP. But I have no doubt you can get your files off their drive from the transfer. Either directly into FCE or with a quick transcode in QTPro.
 
Sure anything is possible- but you really do not want to start with AVI. That means a total conversion just to get to QuickTime= major quality loss. If the post place can't do to MOV find another. It's a very basic service.

Noah
 
Yea, starting with an AVI is less than ideal, though the conversion need not be lossy. Just depends. I can't imagine a telecine service that can't off a .mov file of SOME flavor though.
 
thanks for kicking this around for me -- I will ask for .mov files of some type -- or try another place -- I've called several places but no one seems to be able to convince me that what they offer would work well with FCE4 -- or maybe I should say, I haven't got my head around all the contingencies
 
You'd think that Apple would have the foresight to allow FCE to at least READ ProRes. I mean seriously, I can READ ProRes on a PC, but FCE cannot? Even if the app cannot write to the format, or other popular formats, you'd think they'd at least allow the entry level app to read the output from the pro app.

It's absolutely asinine stuff like this that makes me just shake my head at Apple. I know a lot of you folks love them, but they just do some of the dumbest things imaginable to strong-arm buyers into their more expensive products.
 
Why should they? FCE is considered an intermediate step into Final Cut Pro. ProRes is designed for professional use. You won't find FCE in use in any professional post house for this and a host of other reasons. It's a nice way to learn editing but it's not Final Cut Pro.

Noah
 
kookooframe said:
I'm sending some of my old Super 8 film footage to a transfer house. They will put it on a hard drive in HD-AVI (motion jpeg) files. They assured me that I will not have a problem with Final Cut accepting the files.

I don't really know if I've ever worked with motion jpeg files or not. I've mostly been editing HDV footage from my Canon A1 in FCE4.

Does this transfer plan sound reasonable? I intend to edit some of the converted Super 8 footage as a project in itself, and I would also be dropping some of the files into sequences of HDV footage shot on my Canon A1 (usually 24F).

Any thoughts from the more file-savvy appreciated...
Click to expand...

AVI is a container, so the codec used will determine 'ease of use'. If they produce motion jpeg material, I have imported this into FCE from some of my After Effects project output.

But with all things that I have not tried... ask the lab for test media and verify it can 'easily' be brought into your work environment.

Motion JPEG should be just the spatial compression of each frame using JPEG compression, and the AVI file a convient packaging of how ever many frames your material has. This is unlike DV, HDV, and most other popular 'video' codecs, where not only is there spatial compression, but also temporal compression. The media files are obviously bigger, but unless you have the option of a lossless compression like TIFF... or the like... it probably is good enough for what you want...

Ask them what is the spatial dimensions they digitize to, and that should give an indication of what the resulting quality will be. As a note... it should be square pixels as well... so you may have to customize how FC deals with the matieral.

I'd proably use a HD format, since that would maintain the pixel aspect ratio, and also, if it is 8mm, then you have frame rates ranging from 12 to 18 depending, and again, FCE only supports the video frame rates of 25 PAL and 29.97 NTSC. FCP may have better control of this, but still you'll be using a nonstandard frame rate, unless the service does some for of pull down.
 
Noah,

Honestly I feel this is short sighted. They should, if for no other reason than vertical integration. But I'll give a real world example that happened to me.

A budding videographer was interested in working his way toward his first film fest. He had bought a new HDV camera and was learning it. He'd shot some footage but wasn't thrilled with the look, and didn't understand interlacing and how to color. So he asked me for some help. He was using FCE and I was using Vegas (but could have been FCP for the purposes we are talking about).

He shipped me several versions of the files on a USB hard drive. I cleaned up the video, and graded them and sent them back. Had I been using FCP, it would have been very nice to be able to send him back ProRes .movs. Maybe he'll upgrade in time, maybe he won't. But it makes no sense for two editors from the same company to not be able to read each other's files.

Vegas isn't like this, I don't believe either Avid or Premiere is like this. Why lock out your customers just because they didn't spend as much money?

-P

NoahK said:
Why should they? FCE is considered an intermediate step into Final Cut Pro. ProRes is designed for professional use. You won't find FCE in use in any professional post house for this and a host of other reasons. It's a nice way to learn editing but it's not Final Cut Pro.

Noah
Click to expand...
 
Avid is totally like this and so are a million other companies. You get what you pay for. If you buy a Prius do you really expect to keep up with a Ferrari?

Noah
 
NoahK said:
Avid is totally like this and so are a million other companies. You get what you pay for. If you buy a Prius do you really expect to keep up with a Ferrari?

Noah
Click to expand...

No, but I expect to be able to go to the same gas stations to fill up...
 
PerroneFord said:
No, but I expect to be able to go to the same gas stations to fill up...
Click to expand...

Zing!


Thanks to everyone for your insights on this file issue! Asking for a test clip is a good idea. Its still somewhat of an arcane science to me -- but then again, I come from the days when I used to try to synch up my Super 8 projector with my cassette player.
 
kookooframe said:
Zing!


Thanks to everyone for your insights on this file issue! Asking for a test clip is a good idea. Its still somewhat of an arcane science to me -- but then again, I come from the days when I used to try to synch up my Super 8 projector with my cassette player.
Click to expand...

I believe the gas station metaphor lost me in the translation.

The point is that every company needs to differentiate its products by price and features.

iMovie doesn't support anything 24p? Why?

Because Apple says you need to buy premium to get 24p.
 
David S. said:
I believe the gas station metaphor lost me in the translation.

The point is that every company needs to differentiate its products by price and features.

iMovie doesn't support anything 24p? Why?

Because Apple says you need to buy premium to get 24p.
Click to expand...

I don't consider being able to READ a file from an application in the same lineup as a "feature". I'm not saying FCE should be able to do everything FCP does.

I FULLY expect to be able to use a Media Composer file in Symphony and DS. Doesn't mean I expect to have all the same tools available.

And Apple's decision to not allow iMovie to do 24p is just as dumb to me. When you could only get 24p on a $4000 camera, I understood. But I tend to look at the "market" and set expectations there.

I expect someone with a $1k camera to look at a $200 editor. I expect someone with a $10k camera to look at a $k editor. And I expect someone shooting with a RED, VIper, Arri, etc., to be shelling out $2-10k for their software. What does NOT make sense is asking someone with a $500 camera to spend $700 on an editor because the $100 editor won't accept the files from their camera. That's just poor. That same potential customer could buy a $75 program from half a dozen competitors that will read and edit their files just fine and without the hassles.

I know this doesn't make sense to the Apple faithful because it doesn't fit the thinking, but to people who aren't embedded in Apple workflow, it sure makes a lot of sense.
 
kookooframe said:
Zing!


Thanks to everyone for your insights on this file issue! Asking for a test clip is a good idea. Its still somewhat of an arcane science to me -- but then again, I come from the days when I used to try to synch up my Super 8 projector with my cassette player.
Click to expand...


To windup Bolexes and taperecorder simulplay sound... "just say no"...
 
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