Has DVXUSER Jumped The Shark?
- Thread starter Liam Hall
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Liam Hall
Veteran
Good post. My point about real names is more to do with knowing who you are than what you call yourself. It’s about evaluating and contextualising the comments and advice. My original question, has this forum jumped the shark, is more to do with the banning of John Brawley and a few other things that have left me wondering if I should continue to post here.EDIT: Jinx to JPNola. He wrote his post while I wrote mine, and we seem to agree.
There is a legitimate need to sift comments, even in a specialized forum like DVXUser. Yes, it has already narrowed the field to people interested in audio and video production. But that still leaves a diverse group:
- newbies
- old pros
- wedding and event videographers
- corporate and commercial
- high-end DPs (we have one or two?)
- DSLR shooters
- shoulder cam shooters
- audio professionals
The same goes for the computer forum I frequent, and I suppose other specialized forums, like for musicians.
The thing is, I still don't see how "Liam Hall" tells which of the above that you are. The link to your website in your signature is far more useful. And I guess that's what y'all really mean. Especially for a more common name like Jane Smith, without a link to a website, it's practically useless for qualifying a poster.
I am fine with any of you giving my comments little weight. I am fine if you simply scroll past my comment without reading it at all, because I have not put a real name. Just add .com to my username, and there you have my website. And you will see that I am quite useless to give you any advice on menu settings in the FX6. Or if you just read my profile, you will see that I am a washed-up has-been.
I consider posting on DVXUser a privilege, and I am grateful to anyone who takes the time to read my posts, much more someone who actually replies. I think I do have something to offer in certain threads, but less so in any of the camera-specific ones --- which is why you won't find me in any of those. I certainly don't have any reason to post in the one entitled "Sony ILME-FX6V Owners Club". However, you will find me occasionally popping into ones about industry trends, ergonomics, general technique --- because I spent over a decade studying and practicing filmmaking, and I continue to meditate on the art, almost two decades later. But I'm a bit of a weirdo.
DVXUser activity seems to have gone down a lot since its heyday. If you use the Search tool to find some random thread from 10 or 15 years ago, I think you will find a lot more posts per thread, from users who never post anymore. Most of the people who are (1) codenamed, (2) long-time members, and (3) still posting, seem to me to be mid-tier pros with years and years of experience. So if it's a codenamed person who joined a long time ago, then they probably are worth listening to. If it is a codenamed person who joined recently, then I would take their words with several grains of salt. There are no hurt feelings there. I would expect that they should expect to be taken in that way.
In summary, I am fine if you ignore me if you are fine with my username. And I think I speak for most of us. (By that I mean silently ignoring us, not saying something mean to us.) However you may sometimes be shortchanging yourself. Run&Gun, for example, seems to be superb at lighting, based on a few samples he has shared and his description of his work habits (he is in fact not run-and-gun but slow and methodical). Or almost all of the handful of people who post regularly in the Audio section. That is perhaps DVXUser's best section, in terms of signal-to-noise ratio
Run&Gun
Veteran
Diving back briefly into the idea that those posting under their real names are more "trustworthy" with the information they provide vs. screen names. I believe it's a known fact that on REDUser, they allow some high-profile, "names" in the industry to post and participate under fake names.
And something that I've never seen an answer to: How is someones real name verified? Obviously, if you have a website for your business, that makes it easier. But someone like me for example, even though I've been in the business professionally for almost 2 1/2 decades, yet still has no appreciable on-line presence or identity, by name(company, personally or otherwise).
And something that I've never seen an answer to: How is someones real name verified? Obviously, if you have a website for your business, that makes it easier. But someone like me for example, even though I've been in the business professionally for almost 2 1/2 decades, yet still has no appreciable on-line presence or identity, by name(company, personally or otherwise).
ahalpert
Major Contributor
On Parler, they would verify your identity and give you a blue checkmark or something after you uploaded ID. Not saying we need to do that, but that's what they did
Yep, and then when their whole user database was stolen by hackers it was quite a treasure trove of privacy busting fun. And of course the three letter agencies had a good time ferreting out users for their actions in certain events. Aah, the benefits of putting all your info out there for anyone to access, LOL. What with the regular breaches, entrusting your info to banks, because you have no choice is one thing, but then broadcasting it multiple optional websites is a whole other level of “nah, nothin’s gon happen”.
Run&Gun
Veteran
In general though, do most sites just take your word for it? For example, on REDUser I don't think I was ever asked for anything that could be considered definitive towards proving my identity/real name. I just put my name and email address down. Although it did take months to get approved. Not being argumentative, just curious as to how that actually works.
Run&Gun
Veteran
These hacks and leaks are becoming all too common, these days. Some of my info(one of my email addresses) was exposed, several years ago, during a hack of two forums that I frequented. Fortunately it was JUST an email address and not any financial information or other important identifying info. Although several months later I became inundated with spam and other junk mail. There was actually so much, that I couldn't block it all, because the filter became "full", as there were too many unique address that it was all coming from.
filmguy123
Veteran
IMO this is the biggest thing, we've all run into this multiple times. Fake disagreements over things and then realizing one person is giving advice as a small end-to-end production company to someone working as a freelance DP on larger projects. That's caused confusion with people on how to bill or what is appropriate with clients... they are two different ball games!
Another has been the independent one man band doing live event work or docu work being told IBIS is a useless noob tool from someone working with 20lbs+ setups on an EasyRig in a narrative environment, and two dozens posts later people finally realize the obvious discrepancy.
It could be extremely helpful to have a forced sig or profile data on the left that briefly summarizes where someone is coming from, i.e. "freelance DP for commercial work" or "One Man Band end-to-end production company" etc.
I think the scenario of a user intentionally trying to deceive people into thinking they're some big wig DP working on major projects when they're actually a mid-tier small shop is a bit of a fringe concern... and with such a sharp community that sort of BS would, I think, generally be sussed out pretty quickly anyhow. But what is not a fringe concern is common misunderstandings of where a person is coming from, and they happen repeatedly, because while I might personally remember who is who on this forum and read a post some time back making clear where the user is coming from, it's not like we all clarify every single post who we are and many users can't keep track of that. Thus, adding something under the username or too our sigs (even if not required by the forum official) could go a long way.
Run&Gun
Veteran
There are people that fit multiple categories and float or straddle the line between many types of productions. I've said before, one of DVX's best attributes, diversity of "production worlds" represented, is also one of its weaknesses, because so often advice is given from someone in a different "world" and it's never qualified as coming from that certain perspective. It's only presented as "this is the only way to do it". And it's fine to give advice from other perspectives, it helps people learn, but they need to know, for example, if that info may be coming from a DP working on a big budget series and that's how it's done in that world, not how a one-man band doing a low-budget corporate shoot is going to be able to pull it off.
Mitch Gross
Veteran
In the end while I feel that a rea names policy would be better than not, I'm not married to it nor do I consider it a catchall solution to this forum's problems. The moderators have now stated that they will be taking a more active role and let's hope that this maintains civility. I am still of the opinion that anything that touches on the making and appreciation of motion picture content should be fair game, but only in the way that it does impact this. Employment practices, taxation, client relations, and hey -- maybe a little art appreciation here and there.
JPNola
Veteran
The wider discussions here beyond tech are a reason I am here more than on forums such as Reduser where things are more limited to tech / gear / cinematography.
Just to clarify- my comment about hand-wringing wasn't to dismiss or even downplay concerns over issues like diversity in general. More that I simply do not see where this forum is prone to racist, sexist, or otherwise objectionable content. It happens. But imo it hasn't risen to anything worrisome. Easy for a white male to say, I know. And others have a different take, clearly, if they are leaving or threatening to leave as a result of their perception that the forum is irredeemable and not something they want to be a part of.
That last part- announcing you are done with the forum because it is a hotbed of racism and sexism, seems more "jumping the shark" than anything else here. The sexist comments were immediately condemned and it was made clear that they are unwelcome here. That a soul-searching, introspective thread like this takes place here at all is a good reflection upon the forum, no? Can we not throw the baby out with the bathwater? I like many things here. And many of the people active here. I'd hate to see it cancelled.
Just to clarify- my comment about hand-wringing wasn't to dismiss or even downplay concerns over issues like diversity in general. More that I simply do not see where this forum is prone to racist, sexist, or otherwise objectionable content. It happens. But imo it hasn't risen to anything worrisome. Easy for a white male to say, I know. And others have a different take, clearly, if they are leaving or threatening to leave as a result of their perception that the forum is irredeemable and not something they want to be a part of.
That last part- announcing you are done with the forum because it is a hotbed of racism and sexism, seems more "jumping the shark" than anything else here. The sexist comments were immediately condemned and it was made clear that they are unwelcome here. That a soul-searching, introspective thread like this takes place here at all is a good reflection upon the forum, no? Can we not throw the baby out with the bathwater? I like many things here. And many of the people active here. I'd hate to see it cancelled.
Liam Hall
Veteran
I missed the comment from you JP. With reflection, it's isn't just about civility (I'm can be as rude as anyone on here) so much as honesty and transparency. Plus, and just as important, is enabling a reader to 'consider the source'. If someone asks what is the best piece of equipment for X or best method for Y your response will have more weight if we know who you are and what you do.
Ben Scott
Veteran
Again it's not something for people to try and police. It's just an ideal. You cannot legislate for people that want to act nefariously or bend the rules. All you can do is state how you'd like things to be and promote that.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
I don't think the forum is prone to racist content. I'm not sure that the other chap's issue with the diversity thread was "racism" per se as much as failing to acknowledge the difference in experience for white people vs ethnic minorities in the workplace. And probably moreover a feeling of rooting for one's own team at the expense of people like him. But I could be wrong. I never asked him to elaborate.
I think sexism actually comes up much more frequently and casually, and there were a number of people who supported those specific sexist comments. They weren't universally condemned.
I think that people who aren't at the top of the social totem pole might appreciate an explicit commitment to fairness and an acknowledgement of the barriers they face. And I think that JB felt like he didn't want to associate with a culture that lacked that commitment. But of course, I'm just speculating.
Regarding some of the rudeness and aggressiveness - I think it makes it a less pleasant place for everyone, but I also think that members of the socially dominant group are conditioned to feel greater authority and permission to push their opinions in a combative environment, so that type of atmosphere discourages others from participating. And perhaps men are less put off by overt confrontation, though I hesitate to make such a generalization. Again, just speculation.
Frankly, I don't have a complete analysis and I don't have definitive answers. I just noticed an apparent lack of diversity and I wondered why that was. I admit that the internet is generally a cesspool of vitriol these days, so we're setting a relatively high bar for dvxuser. But I invest a lot of time and emotion in the forum, so I'd be glad to see it be as good as possible. I don't think of cultivating a broader membership as "giving" something to them but rather benefiting from what they have to offer. Just as I was perturbed by JB's banning for his sake but also concerned in a self-serving way about my loss of his knowledge.
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FrameFarmMedia
Veteran
I agree. It would be helpful if the forum had users fill out a detailed bio. Like a CV without the specifics but it gives people an idea of what part of the industry you inhabit and what informs your experience and opinion. I know other online communities I am in put more emphasis on detailed bios of industry interest and work experience along with some samples of work etc.
FrameFarmMedia
Veteran
As always very well articulated. I think people are caught on the hyperbole in the title which is tongue in cheek but having an honest discussion of what can be made better isn't an attack on those who like it as is. Lots of great ideas presented.
What about having different sections of DVXUSER with different rules. That way tech forums stay tech focussed and those topics that warrant a more lively discussion or those actually looking to debate or argue about topics can have that forum also with a different tone.
Eric Coughlin
Veteran
I suggest attaching rocket boosters to the sharks so that when an attempt to jump them is made the sharks can fly out of the water and devour the offending jumper.
G
Guest
Guest
...i think this comment reviving a thread that had died off, was perfect humour. two thumbs up.
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