Has DVXUSER Jumped The Shark?

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“ It's been explained by multiple people multiple times that they cannot lend weight to the opinions of someone who refuses to be open and honest about who they are and their background... If that is who you want to be then great.”

I think you are missing the point that others have no way of knowing that you are who you claim to be. And in that your user-ID carries no more weight, credibility, or authority than a user ID clearly not a real name. I could sign up using any name I choose, claim it to be my real name, and no one here would know it true or untrue.

I do not know so much as one user-name here to be a real-name.
 
If I was going to appropriate someone else's name, work and websites that are in the links in my signature, I'd have picked someone far more talented and successful than me.

I know multiple real name people in here to be real names. And have subsequently worked with a few because of the trust built up on here.

I'm not missing any point. All you can do is light the way. As I said before you cannot legislate for people who wish to act nefariously or bend the rules.
 
As in the people running the forum lighting the way for how they want to run their forum. Nice of you to ignore all the all the actual content of the post though and fixate on a turn of phrase.



Having been away for a couple of years it's been eye opening to come back. There's a level of rudeness, aggression, identity politics and weird conspiracy theory paranoia going on that I never experienced here before.

Frankly it feels a toxic environment and no wonder it's not welcoming to the next generation. I'll confine myself to the one little thread I made and if it creeps in there I'll head off to pastures new. Life's too short.

You guys do what you want to do and be you. Or the you that you're pretending to be.
 
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ahalpert said:
My earlier post didn't get much response. Maybe it was TL;DR.

Question: why do people think that we don't have more female and non-white membership? Does it strike anyone else as odd?
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For POC I have no idea who is or isn’t here. For women or more accurately people who are not cis males, I think they are not here for the same reasons they are not on tons of technical type-forums: they don’t feel welcome.
 
Mitch Gross said:
For POC I have no idea who is or isn’t here. For women or more accurately people who are not cis males, I think they are not here for the same reasons they are not on tons of technical type-forums: they don’t feel welcome.
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That's true, I don't really know the demographics of the membership. But all of the users whose ethnicity I know except for one are white, so I was kind of going off that. But maybe that's not an accurate representation.

I think it would be nice if the members endeavored to make the forum more welcoming - both by keeping things light and positive as Ben Scott suggested and perhaps also by being mindful of who might be harmed or alienated by what we say. I think it's good for people to express themselves, but the discourse should be the same tenor we would use on set with a diverse group of people.

Re:youth not using forums - there are young folks coming to the forum judging by the birthday reports. It's not just actual dvx100 users. If anything, the forum is probably most useful for beginners. Why not capture as broad and large a membership as possible? And there lots of accomplished pros who aren't cis white males that we'd all love to hear from.
 
Mitch Gross said:
For POC I have no idea who is or isn’t here. For women or more accurately people who are not cis males, I think they are not here for the same reasons they are not on tons of technical type-forums: they don’t feel welcome.
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You base that on...what?

What is your evidence that the primary reason for lack of activity by non "cis" males on tech forums is that non cis males feel unwelcome?

You take a phenomena- lack of activity by certain groups, and automatically presume that the phenomena is a result of bad acts by others. There are not many "cis males" in Hair & Makeup. But I don't assume that the reason is that cis males are made to feel unwelcome by those who are interested in Hair & Makeup. I don't assume that the reason for low participation by cis males is anti-cis bigotry by women and gays. I don't assume it is because cis males encounter hostility and bigotry towards them in that craft.

God forbid we acknowledge and accept that all people are not the same and, yes, some groups have interests different than others. Lack of participation by some doesn't dictate that they were made to feel unwelcome, were bullied, encountered prejudice, or were exposed to content they found offensive. Maybe they simply are not interested in the subject / field to the extent that others are.
 
JPNola said:
What is your evidence that the primary reason for lack of activity by non "cis" males on tech forums is that non cis males feel unwelcome?

You take a phenomena- lack of activity by certain groups, and automatically presume that the phenomena is a result of bad acts by others. There are not many "cis males" in Hair & Makeup. But I don't assume that the reason is that cis males are made to feel unwelcome by those who are interested in Hair & Makeup. I don't assume that the reason for low participation by cis males is anti-cis bigotry by women and gays. I don't assume it is because cis males encounter hostility and bigotry towards them in that craft.
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A colleague who isn't white and used to come to the forum told me that he basically stopped coming after reading the early part of the "thread about inclusion in hiring as I knew where it would go and that it would likely enrage and depress me" based on what he had seen so far.

Another colleague is married to a female camera op who shoots on big-budget sets for famous DPs. I asked him if she had any interest in coming to dvxuser and he replied:

If I asked her why she doesn’t go there so would likely say “why would I go to a forum of middle aged white guys who will only be condescending and mansplain things I already know." I don’t think a lot of people posting there even realize how un-inclusive they are. It’s not just DVXUSER of course. But it’s especially bad there. That’s why I do like Facebook. You DO see women and POC all the time posting in those groups.
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And I mean - look at some of the posts in the diversity thread. There was a post about working on a set that was supposedly ruined by having too many female crew whose compulsive stereotypical female behavior inhibited their professionalism. There was another post saying that there was nothing wrong in hiring a woman AC specifically because you find her attractive.

What message might women get from reading those posts? That this is how their male colleagues really think of them and that they're not welcome in the industry or on the forum? That we don't see them as professionals? And it would probably have a demoralizing impact on their self-esteem.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I really wonder if those posters would say the same things out loud, in person, on set in front of female colleagues. I'm guessing that they wouldn't. And that's what it means to say things on this forum that create an unwelcoming environment.

And just more pervasively - there's a lot of "locker room talk" - macho sexual jokes about lighting equipment (such as "I've had problems in the past with softboxes not being deep enough") and minorly objectifying jokes about wives. And the question is do we want to be an old boy's club or not.

You refer to gender imbalance in HMU. And sure, that might be explained by individual interests based on how different gendered people are socialized and even possibly innate hormonal characteristics.

But I KNOW that there are lots of non-cis males and POC interested in cinematography because I meet way more of them in real life than I encounter on the forum.
 
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I'm a middle aged white guy and even I felt uneasy when I first joined and to a certain extent still feel the same way. The atmosphere is one of the short tempered old guy with a chip on his shoulder. I can only imagine how a woman or minority would feel.

The angry responses to Ben seems only to re enforce that it's true. They treat everything as an argument that needs to be won. WHAT DO MEAN ITS NOT A WELCOMING ATMOSPHERE, YOU IDIOT.
 
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That’s some compelling evidence.

The reaction I say my friend says his wife would have in a hypothetical, were it to actually take place.
 
Not a middle aged white guy here :)

This site has been invaluable for my growth as a filmmaker and an audiovisual professional, back in a time where the industry was dominated by secretism, where high quality, broadcasteable or exhibition worthy content was restricted to those that used prohibitively expensive high end only reachable to a selected few.

In this site, from the likes of Jarred (now Red's main man), Barry Green, Mitch, Bob Gundu, Stephen, John Hudson, and many more that I fear memory is failing me now, we were all excited in the new developments in the DV world, from the titular DVX100 that gave the name to this site and its beautiful cinegamma and progressive scan pictures, that where absolutely revolutionary for the price point, to the HD revolution, the 35mm adapters, the lighter weight support gear, the solid state media revolution, dslrs, etc.

I'm now a frequent poster on reduser since I purchased an Epic MX since 2012. Its a different crowd, different set of knowledge, also a great place to share and learn with professionals in the field.

But DVX user is, for me, always that place with a pioneering mindset, of Indies that are starting or for producers that want to learn and find a way to produce content with limited resources.

I remember the number of DVXuser FESTS back then. This was a great idea and something I think should be considered for a return.

I honestly didn't understand the animosity between DVXuser and Reduser back then. Sibling sites. And many Redusers came from a DVXUSER home.

Anyway, I occasionally come here and still search for great threads where people share their experiences and enthusiasm.

Keep it up all at dvxuser. It will always be a "home" for this filmmaker!
 
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JPNola said:
You base that on...what?

What is your evidence that the primary reason for lack of activity by non "cis" males on tech forums is that non cis males feel unwelcome?

You take a phenomena- lack of activity by certain groups, and automatically presume that the phenomena is a result of bad acts by others. There are not many "cis males" in Hair & Makeup. But I don't assume that the reason is that cis males are made to feel unwelcome by those who are interested in Hair & Makeup. I don't assume that the reason for low participation by cis males is anti-cis bigotry by women and gays. I don't assume it is because cis males encounter hostility and bigotry towards them in that craft.

God forbid we acknowledge and accept that all people are not the same and, yes, some groups have interests different than others. Lack of participation by some doesn't dictate that they were made to feel unwelcome, were bullied, encountered prejudice, or were exposed to content they found offensive. Maybe they simply are not interested in the subject / field to the extent that others are.
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Similar to Abe, I base this on interactions with many people in other spaces including face to face. One advantage to using my real name everywhere as well as making product videos and the like is that people recognize me and sometimes approach me. I’m treated as a known quantity to them and they feel they can talk, which I encourage. And I can certainly attest that Abe’s friend is not alone in her perception of this space. It’s nothing like a gamer board where the “bros” are spouting misogyny but it is not nearly as friendly and inviting as many of the Facebook groups or some other spaces. There women who I interact with professionally on Twitter who have zero desire to come into DVXuser.

None of this is supposition on my part; it is all based on factual events, and actual conversations I have had with numerous individuals. Please do not assume things about me when you are free to inquire.
 
BTW, since someone PMed me about it, while my account says that I’ve been a member since 2009, this is actually my second DVXuser account. I was on it near the start, something like 2001 or so when it was about the original DVX100. I stopped coming for a little while and frankly couldn’t remember my old logins so just started the new one.

“I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe...”
 
Mitch Gross said:
BTW, since someone PMed me about it, while my account says that I’ve been a member since 2009, this is actually my second DVXuser account. I was on it near the start, something like 2001 or so when it was about the original DVX100. I stopped coming for a little while and frankly couldn’t remember my old logins so just started the new one.

“I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe...”
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Same here. I had a DVX100 when it first came out. Took it all over the world. My whole kit in carry-on. I miss those simple times!
 
JPNola said:
That’s some compelling evidence.

The reaction I say my friend says his wife would have in a hypothetical, were it to actually take place.
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What about the thing I said that wasn't hypothetical? Where someone told me explicitly that they stopped coming here because of racial attitudes expressed in a specific thread?

And regarding gender - do you honestly believe our atmosphere is flawless?

All I ask is that people comport themselves as they would on a professional set with a diverse crew. That's sort of what Ben Scott et al. were getting at with real names by tying your professional reputation to what you say here.

SPZ said:
Not a middle aged white guy here :)

This site has been invaluable for my growth as a filmmaker and an audiovisual professional, back in a time where the industry was dominated by secretism, where high quality, broadcasteable or exhibition worthy content was restricted to those that used prohibitively expensive high end only reachable to a selected few.
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I'm glad to hear it! And look - I'd be happy to be proven wrong. It's possible our membership is more diverse than I'm aware of. It's also possible that the diversity comes moreso from global attendance but that the American audience is not that diverse. And it's possible that we have more ethnic diversity than gender diversity.
 
Real names and reputations matter. In a similar vein, I tell my children never to believe anything they see, hear or read about current events on any media unless it's being said, written or shown by someone whose career will be ruined should they be found to be lying.
 
Tim Sewell said:
Real names and reputations matter. In a similar vein, I tell my children never to believe anything they see, hear or read about current events on any media unless it's being said, written or shown by someone whose career will be ruined should they be found to be lying.
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I know some lying politicians and religious people by name...

Anyway I take people with real names more seriously. But is is a fun fact that a pseudonym tells more about a person than their real name.

Peter Bosman
 
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