Has DVXUSER Jumped The Shark?
- Thread starter Liam Hall
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That is the problem, the posts are gone, no one but the moderator knows.
What I know: it was an interesting meandering thread. My contribution was a post about Google, Microsoft and Amazon being powerfull monopolistst and how I tried to avoid to use their platforms. (whith Brave, Ecosia and open office). But I guess that isn't offensive or anti American or whatever.
The thread was one of the more interesting treads, slightly derailing and getting back on track again, as it shoul be.
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Liam Hall
Veteran
I read this post and simply thought ‘keyboard warrior.’ Insults should definitely be real names only. Maybe there should be restricted posting rights for those who wish to remain anonymous.
Ben Scott
Veteran
Liam Hall
Veteran
Do you want the long answer or the short one?
ahalpert
Major Contributor
I like dvxuser a lot. But it'd be nice if we had a more diverse balance of membership and moderators, in my opinion.
I don't know of any women who post to the forum. (I suppose there could be, but the only people whose gender I know are male.) I know we work in a male-heavy industry, but there are lots of women working in it as well, perhaps even moreso among the younger generation. Why aren't they coming here?
To put it another way - if this were a brand marketing meeting, we'd be asking ourselves why we're performing so poorly among key demographics.
And the same goes for ethnic diversity. I had a conversation with a non-white colleague recently who was pretty turned off by some of the attitudes expressed on the forum and basically stopped coming here as a result. I think it's useful and important for people to be able to speak their mind, but I think it's also important to foster an inclusive and welcoming community and industry. It's important to acknowledge that one doesn't know what it's like to work in the industry as somebody else.
So, I wonder if we're not turning away huge numbers of people by not being friendly enough because there's a huge group of people who would enjoy and benefit from what this forum has to offer.
The moderators do a good job but seem a bit like-minded to me. If you look at how facebook has some sort of oversight and appeals infrastructure, I think it would benefit the forum to have a more diverse group of people and opinions weighing in on administrative decisions behind the scenes.
And regarding political topics - I'm not sure we're well-served by a blanket "politics" ban. So many "political" topics intersect with working in the film industry - such as covid restrictions on set or public covid policy that may prohibit filming altogether. And obviously diversity and diversity policies are important to consider both practically and philosophically.
I think that political discussions are good but fighting and insulting/demeaning is bad. It would require more effort on the part of the moderators, but it would be nice to have a discussion where the referees interfere only to break up a fight or penalize an aggressor and perhaps generally try to keep the conversation civil. That could potentially be an enriching experience for everyone, especially since the internet has balkanized into bubbles where one might rarely hear the opinions of people who disagree. But perhaps there should still be a ban against advocating for a specific politician.
So, perhaps I'm advocating for some rules changes and an expansion of the moderator pool?
In addition, I liked all of Liam Hall's ideas about enhanced networking and more means of interacting/mentoring, etc. I don't know if that's possible in the current format, but it's a nice idea. I will say that I've been to some facebook cinematographer groups and the organization is very thin. I actually really like the simple organization of dvxuser into topics and threads and how readily searchable the archive is using google. But if it's possible to add the functions Liam described, I'm all for it.
Ultimately, I think it's good to make dvxuser the most valuable and informative resource of its kind for filmmakers and to grow as large a membership of interesting and civil people as possible.
I don't know of any women who post to the forum. (I suppose there could be, but the only people whose gender I know are male.) I know we work in a male-heavy industry, but there are lots of women working in it as well, perhaps even moreso among the younger generation. Why aren't they coming here?
To put it another way - if this were a brand marketing meeting, we'd be asking ourselves why we're performing so poorly among key demographics.
And the same goes for ethnic diversity. I had a conversation with a non-white colleague recently who was pretty turned off by some of the attitudes expressed on the forum and basically stopped coming here as a result. I think it's useful and important for people to be able to speak their mind, but I think it's also important to foster an inclusive and welcoming community and industry. It's important to acknowledge that one doesn't know what it's like to work in the industry as somebody else.
So, I wonder if we're not turning away huge numbers of people by not being friendly enough because there's a huge group of people who would enjoy and benefit from what this forum has to offer.
The moderators do a good job but seem a bit like-minded to me. If you look at how facebook has some sort of oversight and appeals infrastructure, I think it would benefit the forum to have a more diverse group of people and opinions weighing in on administrative decisions behind the scenes.
And regarding political topics - I'm not sure we're well-served by a blanket "politics" ban. So many "political" topics intersect with working in the film industry - such as covid restrictions on set or public covid policy that may prohibit filming altogether. And obviously diversity and diversity policies are important to consider both practically and philosophically.
I think that political discussions are good but fighting and insulting/demeaning is bad. It would require more effort on the part of the moderators, but it would be nice to have a discussion where the referees interfere only to break up a fight or penalize an aggressor and perhaps generally try to keep the conversation civil. That could potentially be an enriching experience for everyone, especially since the internet has balkanized into bubbles where one might rarely hear the opinions of people who disagree. But perhaps there should still be a ban against advocating for a specific politician.
So, perhaps I'm advocating for some rules changes and an expansion of the moderator pool?
In addition, I liked all of Liam Hall's ideas about enhanced networking and more means of interacting/mentoring, etc. I don't know if that's possible in the current format, but it's a nice idea. I will say that I've been to some facebook cinematographer groups and the organization is very thin. I actually really like the simple organization of dvxuser into topics and threads and how readily searchable the archive is using google. But if it's possible to add the functions Liam described, I'm all for it.
Ultimately, I think it's good to make dvxuser the most valuable and informative resource of its kind for filmmakers and to grow as large a membership of interesting and civil people as possible.
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If you're accusing someone of theft, you ought to name your sources.
Or your real name would be subject to a defamation suit. In the UK.
Ben Scott
Veteran
I look forward to seeing them bring it.
Editor / Colourist / Educator and author Steve Hullfish can point you in the direction you seek. https://twitter.com/anti_churnalism
On their current front page
https://nofilmschool.com/summer-movies-2021 - Basically lifted from the LA Times.
This article on Soul - Basically says watch someone else's videos to make all its points and then 'we'll talk after' https://nofilmschool.com/soul-academy-awards
This is an article ripping the video made by The Auteurist on Tarantino speaking about Joker - https://nofilmschool.com/tarantino-joker-comments
You get the point....
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Imamacuser
Veteran
I still think that we should put a concerted effort into stickies, as they would be informative to lurkers who aren't members, alleviate the same questions being asked over and over again, and alleviate the issue of the inevitable jerk belittling newcomers novice questions, because the jerk inexplicably conflates ignorance with stupidity.
I didn't know much when I joined the forum, and a sticky on configuring Premiere project settings for 1440x1080 60i would have saved me countless hours of trial and error.
andykwilkinson
Well-known member
OK while we're on potential improvements and perhaps have the ear of the hard working Mods, here's a few improvements I'd love to see:
1. As already mentioned, real names. But I accept from the discussion over the last day or so that there are two sides to that - so happy as it is if that's what people want.
2. Updating some of the forum sections, e.g. we still have one called PMW cameras (and Temp FS7 & FS5)!!!
3. Biggie this...but the forum is still HTTP. I went though the pain of updating my own website to HTTPS a couple of years back so I appreciate this is not easy (I managed it - but despite being highly technical it took me to the edge of my comfort zone). However, I think it will need doing sooner rather than later. Google etc. will increasingly penalise non-secure websites with lower and lower ranking (and who knows, at some point in the future might actually block them). In the meantime, if you're one of those silly people who uses the same password on everything from DVXUser to your bank account you might want to think about that...
4. Yes, if there is some way of improving the search function that would be really great.
Don't want this to come across as I'm dissatisfied with the forum - it's a great place. It's just that a few tweaks could make it even better.
1. As already mentioned, real names. But I accept from the discussion over the last day or so that there are two sides to that - so happy as it is if that's what people want.
2. Updating some of the forum sections, e.g. we still have one called PMW cameras (and Temp FS7 & FS5)!!!
3. Biggie this...but the forum is still HTTP. I went though the pain of updating my own website to HTTPS a couple of years back so I appreciate this is not easy (I managed it - but despite being highly technical it took me to the edge of my comfort zone). However, I think it will need doing sooner rather than later. Google etc. will increasingly penalise non-secure websites with lower and lower ranking (and who knows, at some point in the future might actually block them). In the meantime, if you're one of those silly people who uses the same password on everything from DVXUser to your bank account you might want to think about that...
4. Yes, if there is some way of improving the search function that would be really great.
Don't want this to come across as I'm dissatisfied with the forum - it's a great place. It's just that a few tweaks could make it even better.
Stephen Mick
Totally Usable
One thing I've appreciated on other VBulletin forums is a better implementation of the "ignore" feature. Right now, when you come across an ignored user's post, it shows a large block of "This is hidden because [Screename] is on your ignore list", which is counterintuitive, and particularly annoying when multiple people that you have on ignore begin getting in exchanges with each other on threads.
I've seen two things on other forums that I like -- a global ignore, which I think is this: https://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=324296
and an option to keep ignored users from quoting the posts of people who have them on ignore: https://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=325718 which can be a good way to curb irrelevant / trolling comments.
I've seen two things on other forums that I like -- a global ignore, which I think is this: https://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=324296
and an option to keep ignored users from quoting the posts of people who have them on ignore: https://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=325718 which can be a good way to curb irrelevant / trolling comments.
Ben Scott
Veteran
Stickies for popular subjects and newbie FAQs for each section would be great.
A forum I am on is mostly public and searchable but has a 'behind closed doors' section for things like politics and other off topic stuff which is private to members of the forum only and not Google searchable.
Global ignore would be incredible.
A forum I am on is mostly public and searchable but has a 'behind closed doors' section for things like politics and other off topic stuff which is private to members of the forum only and not Google searchable.
Global ignore would be incredible.
FrameFarmMedia
Veteran
Exactly this. I think we have done a huge damage as society convincing people that their opinions are just as important as other who have more experience and knowledge. We see this across the internet and it sure hasn't made things better just adds uninformed noise. If you haven't used a piece of gear or have zero experience then please don't comment. To many friend of a friend said XYZ and people run with it as fact.
This 100%. If you know your opinions are toxic and don't want your name associated to them then people need to reconsider why that is. A big part of me does get a kick out of when people expose themselves as being terrible people. That was the best part of facebook groups. I kept a list of companies or people I would never work with because of the way they conducted themselves in public. The answer isn't to hide their actions but to conduct themselves in a manor that people would want to work with.
combatentropy
Veteran
- Suppose you knew someone's name was Jacob Smith instead js1000. What does that tell you about the person you are speaking to?
- How do you handle the case when two users' real names are the same?
- How do you know that the person's "real name" is their real name?
- How do you know whether the person by that name is the same person you know elsewhere by that same name?
Some of these questions were asked yesterday and so far have been ignored. Instead the same lines just get repeated:
- Real names curb insults
- Real names help you know who you're talking to
- Pseudonyms have no use but to tempt you into trolldom
But:
- Although I have seen lots of harsh speech on the internet, I see less of it here. The most-common posters are people who have been here for years. For when things get out of hand, there are several moderators. In fact, this site may have the highest moderator-to-active-user ratio around (not that that is a bad thing, just unlike the examples you may be imagining, like the comments section of CNN).
- I see insulting or condescending language as much from people with real names as without.
- Others have said that it isn't about the freedom to say something naughty but that you can't trust others, like a current or prospective employer, to use it in the wrong way.
- The risk of meeting a dangerous person online is slim but real. Like I said before, it was on this forum that a member once said to another, "I want to kill you." This was for some mockery (that went a little too far but it wasn't any worse than what I have seen often in my years on this forum).
This is what was brewing when yesterday I gave up and said, you're making no sense. I tried a tactic to get it to stop. It didn't work. In fact I think it undermined my argument (that pseudonyms don't encourage bad behavior). I think it is weak evidence, though. You are welcome to click my username and click Find latest posts to search for anything like that I have said, going back years. Every once in a while I try the direct confrontation to try to shake someone up who I think is not even trying to engage with those who disagree. It doesn't work. I relearn my lesson and go back to my mild-mannered self. I'm sorry I distracted from the substance of the argument. I was trying to do the opposite. Again, obviously it failed, because the points are still unanswered.
They are slim scenarios. If using real names provided some real benefit, then it might be worth it. But I don't see how they provide any real benefit at all. And those bad things that have a slim chance of happening, still have a chance of happening. So it's easier to just not have to think about it, if there is no benefit in doing it the other way.
---
Also, although it has spurred some conversation, I'm curious original meaning of this thread really was, Liam. I am familiar with the phrase "jumped the shark" and still need to watch that episode of Happy Days. But it's ambiguous to me about what about DVXUser you had in mind as equivalent to it.
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Ben Scott
Veteran
You can't legislate for people behaving nefariously or trying to bend or get around rules. All you can do is explain and promote how you'd like the place to work and hope people get it and get on board with it. It's not trying to change the world and bad people don't suddenly become good people overnight and we don't need a mid-90s hacking montage to show if you wanted to get around it you could.
I have my real name, my website, Insta and even bloody Linkedin links on here on my signature. Everything about me professionally is out there one click away. Every single person I interact with on here, if they have their info available I will check on it so I know who I am talking to and out of professional interest.
If there was already a Ben Scott on here, maybe I'd be Ben F Scott, or Ben Scott Small Rebellion Films etc etc. Or, and this is mental but if all the other options were exhausted, I know, call me crazy but hear me out.... Ben Scott2. Where there's a will there's a way.
I have my real name, my website, Insta and even bloody Linkedin links on here on my signature. Everything about me professionally is out there one click away. Every single person I interact with on here, if they have their info available I will check on it so I know who I am talking to and out of professional interest.
If there was already a Ben Scott on here, maybe I'd be Ben F Scott, or Ben Scott Small Rebellion Films etc etc. Or, and this is mental but if all the other options were exhausted, I know, call me crazy but hear me out.... Ben Scott2. Where there's a will there's a way.
Stephen Mick
Totally Usable
Ben Scott
Veteran
You should add your MySpace handle as well.
Hahaha!
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